Ogryn got a massive nerf, but nobody talks about it

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Disclaimer:
This is not about the ogryn being unplayable or weak now.
This is about the removal of what i think was the most interesting and synergistic build that darktide had.
The ogryn still deals damage, but a bunch of synergies got removed and the ogryn can no longer be used as a team supporting debuffer.

Stacks from blessings like these used to be applied by direct hits as well as bleeds.
Since the recent update, they only get applied by direct hits.
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This is a massive nerf for melee ogryn who use bleeds.
Especially for enjoyers of Shovels, Bully Clubs and the Shield.

Previously, you could charge through a few enemies and debuff them (brittleness and increased damage taken) via bleeds from the charge.
Then you and your teammates could run in and smash the heretics while they were down.
This no longer works. Your charge now only knocks enemies to the floor and applies a few bleed stacks that deal near zero damage. Any interactions with these blessings have been eliminated.

Same thing with bleeds from heavy attacks. You could previously smack an enemy in the head with a heavy attack (causing a brief and weak stagger) in order to apply a bunch of debuffs.
Or you could slap a horde with a heavy sweep and the enemies would take increased damage because they got debuffed by the bleed.
It no longer works.

Since the class rework

  • bleed damage got nerfed
  • the number of bleed stacks from the charge as well as from heavy attacks was nerfed
  • stagger from ogryn melees (and their specials) got nerfed (or enemies gained stagger resistance; same result) to a degree, that multiple stagger thresholds can no longer be reached
  • Skullcrusher got nerfed: it used to last for 5 seconds after last application, but now instantly wears off as soon as the enemy is no longer staggered, which makes it useless against larger enemies (you can not usually keep them staggered for long), which are the only ones where it had any real use in the first place
  • the amount of rending from the Dominate talent got nerfed (twice; second time with the recent update)
  • bleeds no longer apply debuffs from the blessings of the melee weapon in your hand

Not only did the last update remove a great synergy and team support function, but it also turned Skullcrusher (a previously useful blessing) into utter trash.
The bleed from the charge is now almost pointless, too. Knocked down enemies no longer get softened up by the melee weapon blessings mentioned above.
The damage from the nerfed number of bleed stacks is negligible now.
Because the charge tends to spread enemies around, it is not really possible to make any use of the bleed stacks, by applying more with heavy attacks either (at least not on more than 1-2 enemies).

As it is now, Skullcrusher requires you to:

  1. hit an enemy at least once for initial stagger
  2. hit them again (without the enemy leaving the staggered state) to apply a few stacks (amount depends on blessing tier)
  3. hit them again (still without the enemy leaving the staggered state) to gain any benefit at all from the blessing (and apply additional stacks)
  4. hit them again (third attack, that has to happen while the enemy continuously stays stagger locked) to gain maximum effect from the blessing (if it is T4, otherwise it takes at least 1 additional hit)

Skullcrusher used to apply stacks to staggered enemies via bleed ticks and the debuff would simply last for 5 seconds after it was last applied, instead of instantly wearing off, the moment the enemy is no longer staggered.
The debuff capped at 40% instead of 80%, but it would actually take effect (which it no longer really does, due to how limited it is).
If you charged through a group of enemies, the bleeds would stack up the debuff while they were lying on the floor, and then last for a few more seconds.
Initially, you had 5 seconds after they got up, where they were still affected by the 40% damage debuff.
After the nerf to skullcrusher, the enemies instantly lost the debuff as soon as they got up.
At least, the blessing could still be used in combination with the guaranteed knockdown from the charge, and the bleed stacking it up while the enemies were on the floor. Although the time you had, to make use of the debuff, was reduced to the time it took for the enemies to get up.
Now, absolutely no debuffs are applied to the enemies at all

9 Likes
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I noticed but didn’t say anything because the ogryn previously crushed all opposition in melee. I’m waiting to see how they seem now.

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Nobody talks about it since most people don’t play Ogryn.

Just another reminder that there a few good blessings for weapons on Ogryn.

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in my opinion still fine enough to keep punies on their feet and snivelers on the ground :smile:

been mainly playing shield/kickback with the odd knife iv and club i in rotation and yes i noticed a decline in melee damage.

but not to the point of making encounters frustratingly harder.

guess i was used to having bleed charge as a fire and forget option, now big boys need a bit more attention, which again is fine.

combined with the dialed up director it made for some pretty spicy matches, a nice change in my book :+1:

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By far the tankiest class in the game doesn’t get to have the highest melee dmg output as well with literally 0 effort required on top now?

Good.

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  1. It only mostly helped with elites, but most damage dealt during a mission comes from trashmobs
  2. It increased everyone’s damage, not just the ogryn’s
  3. taking 2 blessings that do basically nothing otherwise, is not really “0 effort required”
  4. If you ever used that build (and use a scoreboard, so you can actually judge it) and compared it to ranged weapon spam builds on ogryn, or builds that other classes have access to, the overall performance of melee ogryn with these synergies was not exceptionally high
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It also is not true, skullcrusher lingers for after 3s after application still.

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This was only powerful if you had outside knowledge of bleeds applying debuffs. I never learned this was a thing until this thread.

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It should linger for 5.
And i am pretty sure that it loses it’s effect long before that.

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This was powerful independent of your knowledge.
You just had to use these things in combination.
Although it is possible that only few knew about it, or made use of it.

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Well I’m looking at it right now in Psykhanium, it lingers for 3s.

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Ok let’s say it does linger for 3 seconds (which might be true, but it makes no sense because it should be 5).
But does the debuff have an effect during that time?

It was much easier to test before this nerf, when bleeds would refresh the duration.
When i tested it back then, the debuff would only actually increase damage taken by the enemy, while the enemy was staggered. As soon as the enemy was no longer staggered, no more damage increase, independent of when the debuff was refreshed.

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I stand corrected, it does not have an effect despite having the debuff on according to Debuff Indicator, back to haymaker we go!

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Yeah, that’s more what I mean about power. You could luck out into this combination and make the melee easier for everyone if you bleed-charged but the game has no built-in feedback telling you what debuffs you’ve applied to your enemies. I think I might’ve run this on my billy club too. From all my playing around with Ogryn I think Skullcrusher in general needs a buff to its duration. This is definitely a nerf on something that was already a pain to use.

1 Like
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yeah these blessings need reworks bad. they should probably just lower the damage bonus to like 40% at T4 and have it apply for a full 5 seconds, and make the on-hit brittleness more like can opener because trying to attack an enemy 4 times to apply max stacks is generally not happening. if this was on the knife I could understand. in general club just feels bad with the stagger resistance of all enemies increasing so much, just use the brute 3 shovel instead it still bullies spawn with bull rush and does more carapace damage.

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It was an unintended interaction that was way too strong to be left in.

The “nerf” was simply a bugfix is all, ogryn still have 0 issues beating anything to a bloody pulp in melee range.

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So strong that it was necessary for some blessings to have any value at all.
So strong that “abusing it” did not result in exceptionally high performances and could still easily be outperformed by spamming a grey kickback.

It did provide great utility for the team though.
Bullrushing down elite packs in “scab only, melee only” maelstrom missions and seeing the team rush in right after you to delete the bunch, was just great.

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Comparing apples to oranges now are we?

If I could count the number of times my beloved Pugryns go down the moment they have to engage in melee instead spamming the kekback, I’d be a rich boyo!

Skullcrusher is obviously bugged and I’ve reported it already, but if you think thunderous have no value, hit me up, I’ll be happy to do a couple rounds with you, so we can evaluate how weak ogryn melee is.

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I have played Ogryn multiple times with multiple different classes. It is still incredibly strong and survivable. I didn’t even notice the change.

Overall players nees to get nerfed a good amount. This is a step in the right direction.

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Maelstrom I-II

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That’s with 2 zealots and a lugger, using:

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Gonna be frank here, I did not feel massively nerfed.

1 Like