Ogryn feels more or less the exact same as before, but now they have a lot more to fill out their style of play, and have a lot of options to maintain their presence in all sorts of fights. Ogryn actually feels like he can be both a bulwark for the team, and a pillar of support for when things go real bad.
However, due to Ogryn’s incredibly limited arsenal and the overall design of its ranged pathing, Ogryn has a lot of issues being able to maintain any variety in playstyle.
Additionally, Ogryn feels almost invincible when played to all of their strengths. While this is certainly amazing prior to Patch #13, it has dulled the experience and nothing is a threat to the player anymore.
These are all opinions from extensive hours of playtesting Ogryn in Auric Damnation. Please be courteous and constructive. Numbers provided are hypothetical or simply suggestions of change.
Key Notes
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Pathing in Ogryn’s talent tree needlessly prohibits access to a handful of Passives, creating restrictive build paths that don’t feel good or fun for the player.
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Ogryn’s Toughness gain is unparalleled to a godly degree. Some say the Ogryns of Tertium generate more Toughness than Him on Earth…
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Bleed damage is insanely high, and Batter feels necessary to take because of it. The amount of Bleed output can reduce breakpoints to 1-3 hits for virtually every enemy in Damnation.
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While Ogryn barely benefits at all from Weakspot or Critical hits, the sweeping change to Hitspot priority has been a massive improvement to the feel of Ogryn’s gameplay.
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Ogryn still lacks the necessary arsenal to take advantage of all that they have been given in Patch #13, making some options extremely frustrating.
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Overall Ogryn has actually become the threatening presence in the game that they were meant to be, and feel very fun to play overall.
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Big Friendly Rock cannot be gained by any source but a strict 60 second interval, lacking viability in Heresy and Damnation. It also can’t kill Scab Flamers and Dreg Tox Flamers in one body hit.
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Thick of the Fray is an objectively inferior version of Hail of Fire due to the way Rending works and the amount provided by it.
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Trample is not consistent and doesn’t last long enough to feel like it’s worth picking over Pulverise with the current level of Bleed damage available to us.
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Coward Culling offers virtually nothing of value despite its theoretically massive damage bonus to Suppressed enemies—only if it persisted long enough to take advantage of it…
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Burst Limiter Override as designed benefits only one weapon in Ogryn’s current arsenal and additionally feels bad to use due to its low proc rate.
Talent Tree Layout
While I have already made a thread about this in particular, I want to be consistent and reiterate my displeasure in the restrictive build paths that prohibit the availability of many Passives, some of which are extremely strong in the game’s current balance.
- All 3 Blitz options should have access to both Soften 'Em Up and Slam
- All 3 Combat Abilities should have pathing options to Crunch!, Batter, Pacemaker, and Ammo Stash; additionally they should have access to all 3 Auras
- +5% Suppression Dealt should be replaced with +5% Critical Hit Chance at the bottom-right of the talent tree
Balance: Passives
++ The Best Defence ++
“Replenish 25% Toughness after hitting multiple Enemies with a single Heavy Melee Attack.”
Suggested Changes:
- Move toward the bottom of the talent tree to create a larger opportunity cost
- Require 3 or more Enemies to activate this effect
- Reduce Toughness replenished to 15%
Ogryn currently has unparalleled Toughness replenishment and literally cannot die in Damnation. The only time an Ogryn player struggles to stay alive is if they’re AFK or alone. These changes both nullify the insane amount of replenishment from one of the best defensive Passives in the game, and creates the necessity of choice as opportunity costs grow in the lower part of the talent trees.
++ Smash 'Em! ++
“Replenish 25% Toughness after hitting a single Enemy with a Heavy Melee Attack.”
Suggested Changes:
- Swap places with the +25 Toughness node next to it to adjust opportunity cost
- Reduce Toughness replenished to 15%
- Double Toughness replenished (30%) when striking larger Enemies (Specialist, Elite, Monstrosity)
While not nearly as strong as The Best Defence, its opportunity cost is nonexistent and is a very easy pickup in every build path. The nerf-buff to this Passive would make it much stronger in its intended use-cases: dueling and dogfighting with tougher enemies.
++ Lynchpin ++
“Toughness replenished while in coherency is increased by +50%.”
Suggested Changes:
- Swap places with the +25 Toughness node next to it to adjust opportunity cost
Again, a powerful Toughness Passive that has no opportunity cost and a very easy pickup for every build. All it needs is a slight adjustment in its talent tree placement.
++ Slam ++
“+25% Impact bonus on Melee Attacks.”
Suggested Change:
- Double strength of Impact bonus (+50%) when hitting a single Enemy
A boring but effective Passive that could use a little more love. This change should make it much more desirable in scenarios when an Ogryn player is dueling with Bulwarks, Reapers, and Crushers.
++ Crunch! ++
“+40% Damage bonus & +40% Impact bonus to your fully charged Melee Attack.”
Suggested Changes:
- Reduce requirement for a full charge slightly (~1.5 seconds to ~1.3 seconds)
While I vehemently disagree with various things that require you to slow down your attacks—as it is a counterintuitive design—the bigger problem here is that you sometimes cannot obtain this buff due to server-authoritative communication. This happens similarly with the 3rd Stack of Thrust. The server will just not recognize in time that you held your Heavy Attack long enough before it’s let go.
++ Batter ++
“Inflict +6 Stacks of Bleed on Heavy Melee Hit.”
Suggested Changes:
- Reduce Stacks of Bleed to +3
Bleed damage is insanely strong right now and should remain that way. Ogryn has no issues reaching high levels of Bleed Stacks that make most things die after 1 or 2 hits, however, making this Passive one of the strongest offensive Passives in the game.
++ Pacemaker ++
“Hitting 5 or more Enemies with a single Attack grants +25% reload speed for 5s.”
Suggested Changes:
- Increase granted Reload Speed to +35%
- Remove duration of granted buff to make it a stockpiled feature
Pacemaker has an interesting niche that doesn’t really feel all that useful in actual scenarios where you would want to stop what you’re doing and reload something. This should make things much more opportunistic or simply useful to keep between fights.
++ Get Stuck In ++
“On activating your Combat Ability, you and Allies in Coherency gain +20% Movement Speed and are also Immune to Stuns & Suppression for 4s.”
Suggested Changes:
- Increase duration to 5 seconds
- Stockpile the buff for the Ogryn player until after exiting Bull Rush
Other Operatives such as Veteran have their specialty Passives for Combat Abilities stockpiled after Infiltrate, for example, to allow for full opportunistic use of the features granted. This should work similarly for Bull Rush without delaying its effect on Allies.
++ Dominate ++
“+30% Rending for 10s on Elite Kill.”
Suggested Changes:
- Swap places with Implacable to create greater opportunity cost
- Reduce Rending to +20%
- Reduce Duration to 6 seconds
An extremely strong Passive that is relatively available for most builds, and functionally required due to its massive boost in damage for a staggering 10 seconds.
++ Unstoppable Momentum ++
“+20% Movement Speed for 2s on Ranged Kill.”
Suggested Changes:
- Totally overhaul this Passive to give up to 5 Stacks of +5% Movement Speed instead
- 1 Stack is granted by a Ranged Kill; each Stack decays individually every 2.5 seconds
This makes the Passive more consistent and interesting, and maintains a longer bonus for the Ogryn with a decaying effect. The current effect of this Passive makes movement stutter and feel bad for the player.
Balance: Combat Abilities
++ Indomitable Modifier: Trample ++
“For each Enemy hit by Bull Rush you gain a Stack of Trample. Trample increases Base Damage by +1% for 8s. Max Stacks 25.”
Suggested Changes:
- Increase the duration to 10 seconds
- Add the modifier: “The larger the Enemy, the more Stacks are earned.” from Hard Knocks
Trample is currently inferior to Pulverise for a variety of reasons, namely that its effect is not easy to utilize immediately after a Bull Rush due to your own displacement, and because you need a large density of enemies to actually gain those Stacks.
++ Point-blank Barrage: Thick of the Fray ++
“Remove 50% of braced Movement Speed penalties and gain +15% Close Range Damage while Point-blank Barrage is active.”
Suggested changes:
- Overhaul the Damage effect to a scaling bonus based on Movement Speed
- +0.5% Damage for every +1% Movement Speed gained, up to +40% Base Ranged Damage
- The bonus starts at the +50% Braced Movement Speed Penalty Reduction (+25% Damage)
This overhaul is unique and significantly interesting, with a massive top-end that either requires a very particular build path or the support of multiple Operatives and their Movement Speed buffs. This can also be achieved with a certain Blessing and Movement Speed Passives. It will actually have a place in Ogryn builds versus Hail of Fire, which is currently an objectively better pick in every way.
++ Point-blank Barrage: Light 'Em Up ++
“Ranged Attacks apply 3 Stacks of Burn while Point-blank Barrage is active.”
Suggested Changes:
- Remove Exclusive status when picking other PBB Modifiers
- Allow the effect to proliferate from all Ogryn sources of explosions (yes, all of them)
Easily the weakest and most uninteresting choice for PBB Modifiers, these changes would make it a viable pick for half of the ranged weapons available to the Ogryn and stack on top of other Modifiers at the same time. As it stands, DOT proliferation is not good at all unless it comes from a source that can reach maximum Stacks rapidly or apply them to large quantities of enemies quickly.
Balance: Blitz, Auras, & Keystones
++ Blitz: Big Friendly Rock ++
“Toss a big rock or hunk of junk at a Single Enemy. Reduced effectiveness against Carapace Armoured Enemies and Unyielding Enemies. You pick up a new rock every 60s and can hold up to 4 rocks at a time.”
Suggested Changes:
- Guarantee it can kill Scab Flamers and Dreg Tox Flamers in Damnation with a single body hit
- Allow it to cleave through multiple Unarmored and Infested in a straight line
- Reduce cooldown interval to 45 seconds
Compared to its metal cousin, BFR currently lacks viability in difficulties that greatly increase the density of Specialists and it fails to produce the consistency needed as such. It also generally lacks flexibility as an offensive Blitz option compared to the other two. A change to its cleaving behavior should also make it a potent anti-horde option (and also really funny to witness).
++ Aura: Coward Culling ++
“+20% Damage against Suppressed Enemies for you and allies in Coherency.”
Suggested Changes:
- Changes to Suppression and Suppressed effect on Enemies are needed
- Overhaul the Aura to give +20% Suppression Range & +10% Suppression Dealt
- Up to 4 Stacks of +5% Damage to Suppressed Enemies, based on level of Suppression
Potentially one of the best Auras in the game, except it’s one of the worst due to how Suppression works and how quickly it can be nullified by virtually everything else in the game. My suggestion here would work in a hypothetical space where enemies are continually affected by Suppression as a status effect even if they aren’t cowering in place. Would it slow their Movement Speed? Attack Speed? Regardless, this Aura is frustrating because the player doesn’t know if it’s working on the enemies.
++ Burst Limiter Override: More Burst Limiter Overrides! ++
“Your chance of triggering Lucky Bullet is increased to 8%.”
Suggested Changes:
- For every 10% of Magazine spent, gain +2% chance of triggering Lucky Bullet, to a maximum of +10% (15% chance total)
- This effect persists between reloads, like how Blaze Away works with Kickback and Rumbler
- This effect ends if the player does anything but reload and shoot, consistent with the Blessings
This alters BLO significantly so that it is usable with more than just the Ogryn’s Stubber. Currently there is no other weapon worth using this Keystone on, making it a total dead-end for the majority of Ogryn’s arsenal. Keystones are supposed to massively alter our playstyle, hence the name, but BLO has a shockingly low proc rate that does anything but that.
++ Burst Limiter Override: Good Shootin’ ++
“The shot that triggers Lucky Bullet is a guaranteed Critical (if it Hits).”
Suggested Changes:
- Additionally, all Critical Hits no longer consume Ammo, regardless of Lucky Bullet triggering
This one sounds weird but it makes sense. This does NOT mean you get Ammo back on a Lucky Bullet Critical Hit, but instead all Critical Hits made independently of Lucky Bullet no longer consume Ammo.
It would read something like this:
“The shot that triggers Lucky Bullet is a guaranteed Critical (if it Hits). Additionally, all Critical Hits made regardless of Lucky Bullet triggering no longer consume Ammo.”
This would make it additionally viable with weapons that aren’t just the Stubber. Does anyone else remember that Ripper Guns have Cavalcade, or that the Kickback has Surgical…? Either way, I think this is the best change to this Modifier I can think of without totally changing its purpose. I’m not too keen on it, but I feel like it fits in really well for flexible usage.
Afterword
I see almost no criticism of how brokenly strong Ogryn is right now and I want to believe that most players are simply using Psyker as a scapegoat for very lopsided power balance (which is ironically very consistent with the universal canon).
All I can advise here is to please look at my suggestions with a critical mind and see the balance of power holistically, outside of just the Ogryn’s individual strength.
I literally cannot die as an Ogryn now. The only times I’ve been downed have been from Maulers and Crushers hitting me with their overhead strikes. I can literally sit there and spam Heavies on a Monstrosity and never bottom out on Toughness. It doesn’t seem fair.
Knowing that we have just gotten these talent trees, players might feel very keen to express disinterest in anything changing right now for an Operative that used to struggle prior to Patch #13.
