it need it
2 Likes
Why need blessing when no-blessing already do, Pal?
Bash the snivellers, Emprah already pr- prov-eye… grut it… gives!
13 Likes
so r veteran and zealot
Batter got nerfed for a reason
7 Likes
Because the weapon has no purpose when bully club exists.
Because 2 stacks of bleed on lights was too powerful apparently. For an ogryn at least. For a veteran that has access to the most rending in the entire game of course it’s perfectly balanced 
Vet bleed was buffed because the old tree made it impossible to take without lots of sacrifices
It is defenitely true that now that the tree is free and bleed can be taken with no commitments, it should be reduced back again to 1 stack
1 Like
Is this a Havoc thing? Because in Auric I am absolutely certain melee bleed contributes virtually zero DPS even at two stacks a hit.
Like think about how little damage 2-4 bleed stacks actually do and how many hits it takes to actually kill things. Any competent melee weapon kills enemies long before the bleed can contribute.
The only case it does much actual damage outside of Havoc is bosses, maybe bulwarks/reapers, and weapons with very high stagger cleave but very low damage cleave.
I’ve never understood the obsession with multiple bleed stacks per melee attack and it feels very telling that despite asking across multiple threads I’ve never seen a single piece of data pointing to melee bleed being a significant damage contributor.
1 Like
What are you referring to, Uncanny? Yeah Uncanny is busted, no dispute there. The 10% Rending Talent, or the other 15% locked behind Marksman’s Focus that is hardly functional for melee bleed stacks?
Just because Uncanny exists for Vet, Zealot, Psyker on three melee weapon types doesn’t mean Ogryn needs his own version of Uncanny.
I’m not saying ogryn needs his own version of uncanny, I’m saying that vet kit needs to be tuned down. But yeah I’m referring to uncanny, rending strikes ( free 10% rending without any condition to activate ) and onslaught ( which technically is brittleness )
Vet on most weapons doesn’t even come close to how good Ogryn is at melee… No to mention that Ogryn has like 3x times survavibility.
Vets bleed is like 10-20% of their overall damage at most.
2 Likes
Wait, people actually take Rending Strikes over +25 toughness?
2 Likes
Bleed is only good to enhance horde clear further on Vet.
So you’re absolutely correct that it doesn’t do much.
The best melee weapons on Vet deal high damage fast, so bleed will amount to maybe 10% of their overall damage at best.
You could say that combat knife has synergy with it, but again, it’s mostly for horde clear and reposition on Vet. You’re not gonna fight ragers in melee as Vet most of the time especially in Havoc, and most Vets don’t fight bosses and Ogryns in melee either. And even then, knife’s damage from push attack outpaces bleed by a lot on Crushers, meaning just getting more stamina somehow is more useful than getting this bleed node.
I’ve played Havoc enough times with Power Sword to know that the only two nodes required for it are 20% Ogryns and 30% weakspot.
People who say that bleed on Vet is broken should say which weapon it’s actually broken with.
2 Likes
Rending Strikes is not worth taking 9/10 times, Onslaught doesn’t synergize with bleed the way Uncanny does.
Brittleness is a debuff against a single target that allies can take advantage of, Rending is a global buff against all armor that only the player with Rending benefits from. Effectively Onslaught is useless for bleed maxing.
2 Likes
I only really see Onslaught being great on Recon las. Sure IAG can use it too but that thing eat ammo like nobody’s business especially when mag dumping carapace, same for BAG.
On normal mobs the bleed only makes a noticeable difference if you couple it with other blessings that synergise with it. Mercy Killer on knife, uncanny/skullcrusher on shovel, ogryn tank builds etc. It can do a lot for “slow (to kill) but safe” setups.
2 Likes
Hmmm considering that on the right side of the tree veteran can sack up to +85% melee damage and has access to DS PS, the highest DPS weapon in the game I’m inclined to disagree, and Vet has plenty survivability first in form of higher mobility, plenty of TDR and replenishment and infinite granades.
Yes rending strikes is not worth because of how much already stacked Vet is. I know the difference between reading and brittleness, just because it doesn’t affect the bleed globally like rending strikes (which is insanely broken and should be removed) doesn’t mean that onslaught is not already a good increase in bleed damage on single targets (more than double in case of carapace). Not to mention that you can oneclip a crusher on headshot wit a IAG thanks to that.
1 Like
Yes which is ironically why it used to be considered so strong. A lot of Ogryn weapons had absolutely miserable damage cleave but high stagger cleave before reworks which was pretty much the perfect environment for bleeds on melee to shine.
I feel like people haven’t adjusted to terrible damage cleave borderline not existing anymore (and weapons just on average being much stronger). There are still cases for it being pretty good, but they’re that, individual cases, not a general trend in melee bleed. Like if you have to hit an enemy enough times for it to matter you’re building around a mediocre at best weapon, not power boosting a meta option. Personally I don’t see any issue created by 2 bleed stacks on melee hit, some weapons benefit quite a bit (but not at all outlandishly, and again the weapon has to be low DPS in the first place to benefit) while many get very little benefit from it on average.
Mercy Killer is a cool synergy on knife, but it’s not even 0.1% of what makes knife broken.
So I circle back to pondering what the issue some people seem to have with it is exactly?
1 Like