Nightmares & Visions - Early Balance Look - Dev Blog Pt. 1

@Kade Oh! Hello? Thanks for the mention! I haven’t been playing Darktide for a while, but hearing this news got me excited again. Honestly, I thought Ogryn was a neglected character and that any patches for him would come way too late, so I wasn’t expecting much—but seeing it happen this quickly makes me really happy >_<

Huge thanks to FatsharkStrawHat for actively communicating with us and to Fatshark for delivering such a great patch!
I’ll definitely have a blast playing once the patch drops @_@

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To quote myself:

Credit where it is due, they ARE addressing some pain points and long-time asks, like crowd-piercing dodges, skullbreaker being too pigeonholed in heavy attacks, gungryn being extremely slanted towards ripper/2stubber, Charge being a moment of vulnerability rather than of awesome; it feels like they are trying to address ogryn QoL issues without actually buffing the class - that’s why the actual damage and toughness numbers are lower (or spread out across more nodes with more conditions, which is the same thing).

I like the concept of a lot of the new nodes - more reliable Lucky Bullet, rock juggling, less damage from burst fire attacks, even support for an actual crit build - but the losses to damage ARE going to drop him under some breakpoints, and spreading old effects across multiple nodes reduces build flexibility by putting a tax on what he used to be able to do.

Furthermore, by separating old abilities into multiple nodes with multiple conditions, they’re going to run afoul of the buff icon display issue, making it harder to verify which of the new abilities just aren’t working on launch (we know the number will be nonzero, but this will make it harder to track for fixes)

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Most enemies whose actions are actually worth interrupt are stopped for a second after taunt and continue shot like nothing had happened, so I suggested apply high supression. It can even have direction like psyker’s shriek instead of an aoe around the player.
And valuable distraction shorten monstrosity life.

Also I im not sure that spamming abilities that restores toughness (No Pain!) every 22 seconds (its only Go Again!) is healthy for game balance

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First of all, huge thanks to the Fatshark team for rolling out this patch so quickly and for all your hard work!

That said, with this Ogryn patch as a starting point, there’s something I’d really love to see changed.

Right now, each class has certain skills that feel almost mandatory to take.
Wouldn’t it be better to make these core passive abilities instead and expand build diversity?

Here’s my personal take on what those essential skills are:

Ogryn: Smash ‘Em!, The Best Defence, Heavyweight
Psyker: Soulstealer, Quietude, Warp Expenditure
Zealot: Until Death, Holy Revenant, Thy Wrath Be Swift
Veteran: Survivalist, Confirmed Kill, Determined

These skills define their respective classes and provide major survivability boosts, making them must-picks.
If they were turned into passive abilities, I believe it would open up way more build options and allow for greater experimentation.

Playing Darktide, I’ve always felt like these skills are simply too crucial to ignore. :frowning:
Because of this, builds feel forced and lack variety, making gameplay a bit repetitive over time.

How about using this Ogryn patch as an opportunity to completely revamp the skill system?

(Please understand that I had to use a translator as I’m not fluent in English!)

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But you’re not taking Feel No Pain for the toughness restoration. You’re taking it for the extra damage reduction to further protect you from the occasional stray chip. You’re GOING to get hit as an Ogryn, there’s simply no avoiding it. Feel No Pain is just the most consistent way to minimize the impact of those stray hits.

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That sounds like insane power creep. You’re suggesting everyone gets their strongest talents for free. Then what? They get those points back to spend on more stuff?

How could you possibly see this working without completely breaking our already very OP characters?

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Zealot’s immunity bubble feels like that too me… almost think it should be removed or made part of keystone… such a crutch right now and weak choices around its level.

Well… you’re right too, but I don’t think my point is wrong either. The important thing is that it’s difficult right now, but we should look ahead and think about it for the future.

I left a comment on the feedback here:
Could you make the essential skills for each class into core passives? - #4 by DrHammer

and I really agree with what @Murderer said in that thread. Especially the part about how, no matter what build you choose, you have to go through the “checklist.”

That’s why I posted this. It’s really frustrating. Even when I want to pick other skills, I can’t take them out because the ones I consider essential are too important! Why? Because there’s no more attractive or powerful skill than these. Of course, I don’t think the skills I mentioned are considered essential by all users, but I believe that these are the ones that can’t be ignored in any build, and there are a few more like that.

Since this isn’t something that can be implemented immediately, I think it’s okay to think about it in the long term. I just hope that Fatshark will consider this, starting from this update and maybe in the future as well.

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Wow! Ogryn rework is… mid… just really really mid…

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I completely overlooked that because all the points were already allocated to other things and I hadn’t gone back to do a brand new build until recently :sweat_smile:

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“8 stacks in the new one”, ah right I see.

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Yeppers, pretty much very mid at best it’s a joke. You should see the bully clubs, they barely did anything to them no significant damage boosts that would wow anybody. So, they’re going to be super sht still most likely, also they nerfed the unyielding damage on them, but the cleavers will be better granted. FS really did not do enough in terms of weapon buffs it’s still ass. They really have a great opportunity here to get most Oggy weapons in terms of damage up to par with the picks & shield, but nope they cannot even do this much…

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Yeah, its almost like I’ve played the game with the Veteran on Auric, unlike the devs, so I know how useless a lot of the skills are, so all I had to do is actually put a moment’s thought into it, and voila, I made the Veteran better than it was in the Beta without making it overpowered, not like that would matter in a horde PVE game with no competitive mode anyway, but I guess every game is terrified of giving the players power and agency to actually complete the highest difficulties with the most popular class.

The Vet isn’t even the only one that drastically needs a lot of readjustments on the skill tree, but it took us two and a half years to even get the skill tree, and for the ogryn’s to get finished, so I can’t offer these in a manner that I actually expect Fatshark to take action on until like, eleven years from now. I’ve long since stopped playing the game, because of the abysmally glacial rate of updates, even GRRM finishes books faster than Fatshark adding things.

We had the 2h Force Sword/Power Sword in the game files since Beta 1. It took over two years for it to get introduced. There’s still no Melta gun. There’s still no longlas, no plasma pistol, just…six different kinds of autoguns. Great! Really makes me excited to play six different types of the same weapon, instead of having a melta gun.

Not to mention that I’ve been wanting to put a Tempestus Scion outfit on my Veteran since Beta 2, I’ve wanted a Sisters of Battle outfit, even just a Hospitalier version for my Zealot, but instead we get recolors and reskins of the same outfit, which still clip into other parts of other outfit pieces, or just float in the air without touching anything. Its not that Fatshark didn’t do a good job with the game. They did a great job. The level design, the art design, the sound design, the music, the gameplay itself, the melee gameplay feels incredible, its like they hit a 9.5-10/10 on every single hard part, and got a 0/10 on everything easy.

They just can’t maintain it, and can’t figure out how to follow what the community wants from it, which is to be a Warhammer power fantasy game. That means we want to have the option to dress up our characters like more than just…Kriegers. Where’s the Mordian set? Where’s Valhalla? Where’s a Tempestus Scion outfit? If they don’t want to give us SoB armor, fine, so be it, give us Repentia armor then! Its like they can’t figure out how to add anything, when all they have to do is literally load up Battlescribe and take a look at the tabletop rules, and start adding guns and melee weapons.

We’re an Inquisitor’s squad of rejects. There should also have been Skitarii, and Xeno troops too. That happens in 40k’s canon. I’d play nonstop if I could make a Tau or Eldari captive that’s working off some immense debt to Grendyl/Rannick for whatever reason. But then that reduces us to the same issue. How slow the game is to get updated.

I’m absolutely astonished anyone is still playing at all. Pleased, since its a good game, but just…done dirty by mismanagement.

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@FatsharkStrawHat Is it possible to find out wether this big Ogryn patch also will fix the bug that prevents Ogryn from vaulting/climbing over fences?

There are a lot of bug reports on this one and it’s been in for over a year now and is very frustrating. For reference I’ll link to one here:

Gpkgpk has a very good analysis of what is probably going wrong in there btw:

Would be cool if the big ogryn rework could get rid of this very frustrating bug in particular too. It would be an indirect mobility buff if you think about it, letting him consistently vault fences.

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Yes, yes it would, bigly.
It’s really quite frustrating and adds to too many instances of needless damage or worse I’m sure.
In the meantime as a PSA to all: holding down jump helps, but it’s far from ideal obviously.
It needs a proper fix available to all platforms, like a year ago.

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He should break through fences and boxes like the kool-aid man… except the safety rails on cliffs =p I can’t believe the left gaps in the safety rails come on Fatshark this is an unsafe work environment dont make me send OSHA after you!

Family Guy kool Aid Man

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Bro really thinks non-humans are going to be given the chance to do the Emperor’s work under threat of execution instead of just being executed on the spot

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Very excited about these changes. Except for the Light em up nerf. Why not allow Ogryns their moment of glory? That really dampens the excitement. I thought we’re after more build variety here. I go gunlogger when I want to kill big ones. Lemme shine at that!

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32 stacks were way too strong. one ability shouldn’t be able to almost kill a boss.
i tried 16 stacks, and even that was enough to take over half the boss’s HP quickly.
personally, I think 20 stacks would be fine too

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The Darktide melee combat is 1 of 1, top tier. Warhammer community hungers for a power fantasy game that’s immersive and has good gameplay mechanics. Jesper Kyd is the Beethoven of Warhammer.

The reason people continue playing Darktide and put up with the bad reskins, clipping, bugs, etc is because there’s no real alternative to Darktide that satisfies the Warhammer community’s itch quite like Darktide does.

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