And I don’t think it will…
I don’t say that it could not be good… I say that the values they use make these talents barely noticeable.
+50% would be good.
I would even love a +90% with a trigger like on taking damage, or melee kill or whatever…
I think y’all are sleeping on the weapon swap speed talent. It feels really good to play with. Ogryn taking 3-5 business days to swap can become really restraining in super chaotic fights in high difficulties, and something that alleviates this (in addition to stacking with the wield speed improvements to Rock itself) is very good.
GamesLantern has the more up to date tree. No Hurting Friends triggering on any damage taken and not just health damage should be the version that hits the game.
But like they said, the values and everything in this devblog are WIP and subject to change.
10 Likes
Yah figured, people are underestimating that one too and how often everyone takes damage …mmmmm
His damage, dr and toughness regen are gonna feel amazing just not alot going for mobility in changes
Tell them to swap Lynchpin and Furious pls =p
I think the Taunt could still be improved a bit. Players choose it primarily because of the extra damage that Valuable Distraction provides and that’s the reason why Go Again was and will be unpopular.
The Valuable Distraction and No Pain! can be swapped places and Go Again instead cooldown could apply mass suppression like veteran’s stealth or zealot’s relic does. Shooters on Havoc are really dangerous and an extra source of interruption sounds more interesting for me than passive toughness regen
1 Like
Swap Hard Knocks and Won’t Give In, their placement doesn’t make sense. Hard knocks fits the heavy hitter playstyle more and Won’t Give In fits the tank playstyle more.
4 Likes
Hard Knocks and Won’t Give In are both in the middle tree?
Gotta say, REALLY like the sound of that. Many times that’s happened to me and it’s annoying as hell.
"Bull Rush
“Will protect you from Flying Dogs, Nets, and Bullets.”
- You now count as Dodging during Charge."
Awesome! Adding a bunch of bleed stacks to each enemy hit during Bullrush would be cool.
Another wonderful tweak would be to allow much better range with the machine guns, and a tighter accuracy to target weak spots, even if the latter is only whilst Burst Limiter Override is active.
In regards to the Heavy Hitter keystone:
" * On Heavy Attack Hit to On Melee Attack Hit."
There’s an option for that already, I have it selected.
With Unstoppable:
" * 100% Melee Toughness at 5 Stacks to 15% Melee Toughness Per Stack."
Shouldn’t that be 20% Melee Toughness Per Stack to make it up to a 100% at max stacks? With 15% it only mounts to 75%.
Bruiser
“Giving it the same treatment as Zealot’s Invocation of Death, for the sake of Balance.”
- 4% Combat Ability Cooldown Reduction Instantly to 100% Ability Cooldown Regeneration for 3s.
That sounds wicked.
Overall looks like a very interesting rework so far. Nice.
1 Like
Yeah but the nodes above it are more meant for the respective builds I mentioned. Would you take the two nodes above Hard Knocks willingly for a heavy hitter build? I wouldn’t.
2 Likes
I understand now 
Yeah that’s a good catch… though almost like were reorganizing all the unwanted children in the corner.
There are 8 stacks in new tree
This already exists, it’s the Indomitable upgrade node called Pulverize.
3 Likes
I have conflicted feelings on the Ogryn changes.
Overall those changes seem good, and are addressing the biggest problem I personally had with Ogryn: build diversity. But I will refrain to formulate an opinion until I have actually tested the Ogryn V2.
But I also feel frustrated that Ogryn seems to get somewhat worse versions talents of what other classes have:
Apparently it’s actually 10%, compared to veteran getting 30% on top of having weapons with much higher finesse.
30% rending on active ability, that requires 2 point investment (and was not really much used as competition was better) is game breaking, but veteran applying 40% brittleness in less than a second every time he shoots it’s perfectly fine? Where is the logic?
10% attack speed after 5 attacks, all human characters get it unconditionally 
Also Bruiser nerfed for the second time, Maximum firepower also nerfed.
Again vastly inferior options to what the 3 human classes have.
For sure Ogryn now will be more fun to build and play but it remains inferior to the human characters.
6 Likes
Fatshark seems to be utterly terrified of making ogryn overpowered without realising that all the human classes are completely broken.
6 Likes
The only real class to see repeated rebalancing (nerfs) over the last year+ with an ogryn-sized serving of neglect on the side.
Overall the changes seem good, but some seem like giving with one hand and taking away with the other here. Repeating myself here, but nerfing bruiser again, while saying “more zealot”, except it’s 1/2 as potent for 3/4 of the duration, seems kinda useless now? Too far?
Is it now going to be the effectively only class without a CDR node? This somewhat cripples (pun intended) mobility with charges, so what if the charge has dodge state now, you’re effectively shoehorning ults to the “hold in your back pocket” status, and that was never an effective strat in this game. Am I missing something?
Bruiser team elite kills are often plentiful but they are often not too another ogryn-only feast or famine, whereas zealot can be overloaded with crits, and even non-crit weapons can crit often enough to help, especially when the charge ult itself seeds crits and bleeds and you can have 2x.
As others have pointed out, ogryn seems to be targeted with a lot of conditional stuff too, and the tree size still seems to favor an all or nothing approach to say gunlugger, whereas vet can still be flexibile in the melee/ranged balance.
And what about weapons not mentioned in the notes? Are they forever doomed to be (mostly) viable in a pre-13 world? Are the tweaks to the listed ones enough to matter?
So again, say the net effect is a very mixed bag at best, when is the next iteration to this new tree going to be? 3 months? 6? 9?
6 Likes
I just found out another stealth nerf, from the game lantern tree, seems that Delight in Distraction got nerfed, again. From stacking 6 times to stacking onl 4.
Bringing down the total DMR from 48% to 32%.
If this is introduced because of the new DMR passives introduced, then this is the wrong move, you are just forcing people to use to points to get what before they could with 1.
This is a big nerf to Ogryn.
I don’t know… I was very positive about this changes at first, but I’m starting to feel that Ogryn is loosing more than what’s gaining in this update.
3 Likes
Wholly unrelated to any balance or gameplay consideration but I think “Dedicated Practice” should be renamed to something more Ogryn-Sounding. Something like “Pumping Iron”.
So it’s like, you work out so much you can switch weapons faster.
2 Likes
Psssst, note the word “strength” here. This isn’t some wimpy bonus that only scales the bonus damage from weak point hits. This is straight up +10% power on any attack that hits a weak spot. That’s pretty good and also works equally well for all weapons regardless of their finesse scaling.
6 Likes
Yeh, my bad, I know that strength is not weak spot damage bonus, I thought veteran talent was strength too. I made a bit of mix with Marksman ability modifier.
Valuable Distraction is garbage thank you for coming to my TED talk and here’s why
You’re already satisfying Go Again’s condition by rebuilding your stacks of Feel No Pain. The faster you have your taunt back up, the faster you can bellow out another interrupt. And if your team genuinely needs the damage bonus from Valuable Distraction to kill an enemy that’s not even attacking them, that’s a your-team problem.
1 Like