Overall the ogryn rework conceptually looks good, but there are a few problems with the talent tree that are lopsided or will fall flat on release. I want to point out some of these issues since they are mostly numerical and very easy to fix. I have reviewed the Steam patch notes and am referencing this link for the fully inspect-able skill tree:
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/classes/ogryn-rework
Before numerical changes I want to cover the location of talents because the top area of the talent tree could be swapped around into a much more coherent starting section.
For the opening talents: Furious would make more sense as the first option on the left, melee oriented, side. Heavyweight is good where it is in the middle. For the first talent on the right I suggest swapping the talent Dedicated Practice there from the coherency oriented section lower on the tree and relocating Towering Presence down there instead so that both are in more synergistic locations with other talents.
This second row can distribute the remaining 4 toughness replenishing talents: The Best Defence makes sense on the far left branching from only Furious as they both involve hitting multiple enemies with melee attacks. Smash 'Em! branching off from Furious and Heavyweight is also logical since this leaves all of the purely melee talents connected on the left side. Steady Grip makes sense on the ranged side branching from only Dedicated Practice on the far right. This leaves Lynchpin branching from Heavyweight and Dedicated Practice which makes sense, because coherency toughness regeneration is better in ranged fights, but the center of the tree also has some coherency oriented talents further down.
Light attacks being able to benefit from these talents is a very good change, but the light attack value being only 1/3 of the heavy attack value seems a bit too low. I’d recommend making the light attacks replenish 1/2 of what the heavy attacks replenish.
This is just kinda weak and should either release more grenades or also increase holding capacity. This talent needs more in order to be a considerable option.
The numbers on this are just bad. The duration is way too low for this talent to make a difference. It should have a 10 second duration at minimum. The damage resistance value is probably fine as is.
Giving this talent a cooldown longer than the buff duration vastly degrades its practical value. I suggest either removing the cooldown outright, lowering the cooldown to 2.5 seconds, or buffing the duration to 4 seconds.
This is conceptually a really good talent. The amount of enemies the ogryn needs to taunt in order to get the full effect is 20 though, which seems excessively limiting. I’d recommend doubling the amount of toughness regeneration gained per enemy taunted to 1% per second, while keeping the same upper limit so that only taunting 10 enemies is required for maximum effect.
The new talent For the Lil’Uns seems like a more clunky, but far superior option than the older talent Won’t Give In. I’d suggest altering and shifting some power around to make both of these feel like smooth and reliable options in their own ways. For the Lil’Uns should have its cooldown completely removed, but only grant 15% TDR. Meanwhile, Won’t Give In could use a solid buff to 25% damage reduction and perhaps a slight range boost to 25 or 30 metres as well for the sake of reliability.
Only 30% resistance to the damage type that ogryns already don’t feel?! If this gave 20%(ish) Specialist resistance or literally any other defensive alternative it would be more considerable.
Burst firing explosive weapons is ammo heavy already and needing 4 to 8 shots in order to get the maximum value out of this talent is somewhat ridiculous. Perhaps the application rate of this one should be increased to apply +2 stacks in the outer radius and 3 or 4 stacks in the epicenter of explosions.
This +25 toughness passive is an illusion of choice. Every loadout will take it. This will always be chosen before other defensive talents are even considered. I’d recommend adjusting this from +25 toughness down to +15 toughness and simultaneously increasing the ogryn’s baseline durability to 85 toughness in order to make up the difference.
A lot of damage resistance was shifted off of Delight in Destruction and redistributed to the ogryn naturally. This was a very good change, but could honestly go slightly further even. The 5% TDR passive is mandatory in order for the player to take the Indomitable ability and it feels really bad compared to all of the other ogryn toughness passives on the talent tree. I suggest shifting a little more damage resistance off of Delight in Destruction by lowering the resistance to 6% DR per stack, increasing the limit to 5 maximum stacks and then increasing the mandatory toughness passive to 10% TDR. While this would overall be a minor change it would feel better for build variety and be in line with the rest of the ogryn rework.
While this talent is certainly not too little most players find this talent to be too late. Reliability is very important and with the current health threshold it just isn’t consistent enough as a safety net. I’d recommend increasing the health threshold to 50% health while lowering the effect to +50% toughness replenishment. While this might seem like a nerf on paper the reliability of this talent would increase massively. I think if a change like this happened far more players would take this talent both at the upper and lower ends of the ‘skill spectrum’.
This talent already has a very short duration/uptime and with the nerf to the cooldown recovery talent Bruiser it will have even less. Perhaps getting the duration buffed to 5 or 6 seconds would be fair.
These are both too weak. 20 or 25% reload speed would be a viable consideration.
This talent is cool. The duration is not. An 8 second duration would be more practical since you also need to reload eventually after every activation of the talent effect.
This issue isn’t a new one. Strongest! is useless against ranged enemies. I’d suggest changing the effect to instead cause stacks of Feel No Pain to regenerate at a rate of every 2 seconds which is a notable upgrade over the default 3 seconds.
This might be deserving of a nerf… Stagger talents like Slam and No pushover are heavily overshadowed by this. 80% impact from a keystone upgrade for 1 talent point is insane. Perhaps lowering the bonus per stack down to 5 or 7.5% impact per stack for a total of 40 or 60% impact would be warranted. Having options that eclipse everything else is how build diversity dies and metas stagnate.
