New melee traits - Make your suggestions

As every trait thread will ultimately become a shouting contest over just one trait, I would like to try something new. In this thread we don’t talk about existing traits at all (not a single word) and just suggest new melee traits. We can discuss these but I think it is fine too if we only post our suggestions each. This can be a collection of ideas to pick out the moment the trait rebalance will come.

Why though? Traits is something which at one point will be re-balanced for sure. However, what we are currently missing are good suggestions for melee traits. Most of them are just uninspired, boring dps traits (which can work to, if balanced correctly) with a tendency to be overpowered. Due to the increased activity caused by the PvP forum game there are more ideas floating around, so this might something we can use to build upon. So let us begin with some suggestions:

  • Nimble Feet
    Increases effective dodge counter by 2
    Apparently people are bemoaning poor mobility, this would help it
  • Impaired Vision
    Landing a headshot will increase dodging range by 15 %
    Similar to above but tackling another issue. Increases mobility. Should not be combined with Nimble Feet though
  • Weapon Grease
    Allows weapons to slide past shields and armor (does not damage them though)
    Helps, crowd control, might infringe with certain weapons characteristic though, not sure on this one
  • One more
    Will increase your cleave for one more hit at half hero power
    Might be to strong on single target weapons like the axe, would have to be tested. Is also a rather uninspired as a trait
  • Combined effort
    Will deal +15 % more damage for each player who hit the same enemy in the last 10 seconds
    This would help weapons which have issues with monster damage or double down on monster killer weapons in sacrifice for another trait
  • Fair Winds (horrible name, to lazy to be creative right now)
    Killing an enemy will increase attack speed by 2 %. Can stack up to 10 times. Counter will reset upon dodging
    Gives more dps but is conditioned which balances it out.

The thread were we shout at each other will appear at a later time.

11 Likes

As of right now, DPS is king. Swift slaying offers a fairly consistent attack speed buff which overshadows every other trait. I too would like to see other build diversifying traits or at least some other viable traits. Your suggestions seem like fun and unique additions although I worry that players will still ignore the more defensive traits such as the dodging related ones. At any rate, here are a few uninspired but possibly build diversifying suggestions in addition to yours:

Armour Crusher
Critical hits against armoured enemies increase the damage recieved by the enemy hit by 20% for 5 seconds. Does not stack with similar effects.

Brute Strength
20% increased power
30% increased cleave
Cannot deal critical strikes

Heavy Blows
30% increased power. 15% decreased attack speed.

Knockout
Headshots reduce the damage dealt by the enemy hit by 15% for 4 seconds

Staggering Strike
Critical strikes have 30% increased stagger power

Sudden Strike
30% increased attack speed if you have not attacked for 4 seconds

Versatile Combatant
Time blocks increase your ranged power by 25% for 2 seconds

Vital Point
100% more critical strike damage
50% chance for critical strikes to count as a non-critical strike (This includes guaranteed critical strikes)

4 Likes

Ulric’s Fury

  • Has a 3-6% chance that your critical strikes deals 300% damage.
  • Can only happen once every 5 seconds.

Sigmar’s Wrath

  • Critical strikes have a 5-10% chance to knock down its victims.

Numbers aside, I like a few of them.

  • Heavy Blows seems like an interesting trade-off
  • Versatile Combatant is very interesting mechanic and would be hard to pull of but it pairs strongly with shotguns.
  • Knockout is also a fair trade and would help against Elites and Bosses.
  • Staggering Strikes would be interesting to see in effect
  • Brute Strength seems to much of a Benefit on certain Career/weapon Combos which have low crit anyway, so it wouldnt be much punishment
  • Sudden Strike I thouht would be to strong at first thought, but actually there would be rarely situations it help much other than picking off ambients with heavy hitter weapons
  • Vital Point would be a trade-off: Half-crits for double Damage, would create a lot of new breakpoints, might be difficult to balance

3-6 % of the already critical strikes? So 0.20 (assuming 20 % crit) * 0.06 = 0.012. So About 1 % of all strikes? Hm, this might work.
Simgar’s Wrath might end up a bit comical, not sure it would help much against elites. But an occasional stagger of bosses might make this interesting.

2 Likes

Increases your lowest hit dmg but decreases your max hit. (melee only)

Edit: ‘Friendly fire doesn’t make your aim be innacurate’ :^)

1 Like

Can’t remember who posted this idea but I remember reading someone suggest Bulwark be incorporated into Opportunist or Parry.

Serrated Edge: Your attacks cause unarmoured enemies to bleed (useful for armour piercing weapons with poor unarmoured dps and horde clear)

Well Balanced: Halves the stamina cost of pushing and push attacks gain 5% increased critical hit chance (Definitely competes with SS for weapons like greatsword)

Unbreakable: Your block cannot be broken by a single attack (Probably requires another enemy attack within 2-3 seconds of the initial)

Vengeful Blade: Increase power by 15-25% for 5-10 seconds after being hit by an enemy (strong contender for Slayer, Zealot, IB, Unchained?)

3 Likes

Off Balance, Opportunist and Parry can be combined into a single trait that turns you into a defense/counter specialist. By themselves they’re hard to justify for various reasons.

4 Likes

While I did myself “no talking about existing traits” I can’t let this stand as it is. Opportunist is already one of the strongest traits that exists and the only reason people don’t know this is because they are trapped in their dps mindset. Opportunist shall not be buffed any further. We need balanced traits not broken ones like Swift Slaying.

Combining Off Balance and Parry might be something which could be considered.

I posted these before but here they come again. :slight_smile:

Armour Dent - Inflict bleeding damage on armoured enemies. The more armour, the more bleeding.

Bonebreaker - Hits reduce movement and/or attack speed on target (1-5%)

Hammerhand - +25% stagger to headshots

Smash Around - Increase in the weapon’s cleave and stagger overall

2 Likes

is not the only reason. if u played v1 and if u know what is devastating blow u will never pick up opportunist. Opportunist is just a rip off devastating blow -50%. considering v2 have 2x or 4x elites on map idk why they dont bring it back.
maybe bc most of carrers have ult to trade off that -50%. and i remember when that trait was working only for host most of the time, so it was in the shadow most of the time like any other traits expect for SS and (parry, here and there) they change it but i still dont consider it “one of the strongest trait in game” i wish u can make a video or find a video to prove me wrong.
we did have discussion for it and i mention on what weapons i use this trait.
and then i see u consider parry to be combined with off balance.
i think that parry is way superior to opportunist. as u can see we have different mentality and gameplay.
if they make opportunist same as devastating blow, 50% of useless weapons can be a high tier with it.
the reason why they did butcher devastating blow to opportunist is to doge more but they did not take in consideration doge is poop on high ping. remember range meta at start? and auto targeting form SV overheads? as client was ever worst. opportunist? yeah right

whatever u say just dont forget to post a video of opportunist in action(keep in mind the weapons i mention so dont use it on them, and while u are there do a 100+ping game or if u can find that ofc) GL!
opportunist hahaha!

1 Like

Loved the idea someone had in another thread, where you had chance to fear enemies like in WH:TW.

https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Deathmask

This would be ok for a Trait, but I think it would be even cooler if it was used to make a tanking Weapon for Saltz.

2 Likes

This is true on a few weapons, but it does nothing for a large majority of weapons. At least in cata. For example, opportunist is probably the best trait for flame sword, but putting it on rapier would do literally nothing.

1 Like

You didn’t mention any weapons. First off, I want to make sure that you know that opportunist not only works with pushes but on all attacks. I assume you know. But sure here are two examples which I luckily had equipment for (video quality is kinda poor since I don’t have a suitable upload means, to see the actual difference it is shown once with and once without the trait).

  • First video is with Sienna’s Mace, first half without opportunist, second part is with opportunist
    https://videobin.org/+1ajs/1gyx.html
    It can be easily seen that in the first part the enemy doesn’t react at all while being staggered in the second half
  • Second video is with the Executioner Sword light attack, first half without opportunist, second part is with opportunist
    https://videobin.org/+1ajs/1gyw.html
    In both cases the enemy is staggered, but visible more in the second part despite having weaker hero powers.

There are several other examples where opportunist let’s you reach new stagger break points. Not of the top of the top Chaos Warriors but of elites, specials or horde enemies. Especially in mixed hordes this means that the usage of opportunist usually gives you more breathing room by staggering enemies for longer or at all which can take pressure from you and your team while also providing opportunit windows to deal staggered damage for your damage dealers.

This effect triggers to 100 % all the time without special care and all you have to do is just keep attacking. I don’t think I have to explain how good the trait synergizes with actually crowd control weapons like the shields or the flails. I would say the trait is a good choice on at least a third of all melee weapons, probably more.
An effect it has on most of them, in some cases it is not worth though. Seeing an usable effect for example on Rapier or Dual Daggers would be hard.

Not sure what the ping has to do with it. If ping is an issue on your side then the trait should even be worth more as it gives you the time to react which is lost due to ping.

i did


and u did not use it. nice. and i can see with this weapons i can do much better with SS.
but u made the point.

ping just destroy this game. leave at that

If you expect me to remember every conversation I hold then you are either overly optimistic or overestimating my mental capacities O.o

I´ve an idea to buff parry up a bit.

  • Deflect&counter

Timed blocks reduce stamina cost by 100% & greatly empowers your next push/bash within X seconds.

No straight numbers inflation but given how staggering opponents already boosts your damage against them i think it might be a useful thing anyway.

2 Likes

Master Duelist - Hitting an enemies weak point increases your power against the same armor class for x seconds by y % , stacks up to 5 times.
(may require some work to weak points, which is basically only the head [even for the Marauders and Maulers] except for our beloved Stormfriend)

Shield Breaker - Wooden Shields are destroyed by Heavy Attacks, Shielded Stormvermins open their block after 1 Heavy Attack… smth like that. (might be a little too strong, but i wanted to add an idea of an “Anti Shield” trait here)

1 Like
  • Counter attack — Hitting an attacking enemy with a melee attack does 50% more damage. Take 25% more damage while attacking.
  • Successfully staggering an enemy gives a balanced % of stamina regen (on all enemies, or maybe only elites, or elites give more regen and horde enemies less)
1 Like

Well-balanced: charged attacks 10% faster, dodge count +1
Keen: Critical Strikes add a bleeding effect, 15% more weakspot damage.
Gromril forged: light attacks deal armour piercing damage, charged attacks 10% more power.
Ithilmar forged: Pushes cost 50% less stamina, light attacks 10% more power.

1 Like

Time to give my personal feedback instead of useless discussing in the thread.

Not sure I understand this one correctly. What do you mean with max hit? The number of attacks in a combo? Or the cleave?
That second one :stuck_out_tongue: I understand the frustration but that would be one weird trait.

This one sounds interesting however i fear in praxis it wouldnt hold much. Enemies coordinate their attacks when you are blocking. So they would still break the block. Hm, at least you would get one poke less.

I see spears next best fried.

Emphasises a playstyle Im not particularly fond of and creates to many good breakpoints in my opinion :sweat_smile:

Like these, they would definetely influence the game. The first would be helpful for elites and bosses the second would compete with Opportunist (might be even to low in that regard).

So enemies run away from you or receive a debuff? The first case wouldnt be much tanking.

Would make parry useful on shields but cant imagine it being popular. I like it though as I play more defense/support and it changes the way you approach enemies.

I think this one would be suitable and not really to strong. Different weapons already break wooden shields and to make SV less annoying for sacrificing a trait is a fair trade.

Duelist implies that changing target class inbetween resets the bonus?

I like the idea for traits with a drawback. But ufff… 50 % more damage is huge. I am not sure if that drawback is enough.
Also like the formulation of “balanced %” :stuck_out_tongue:

For my tasting a bit to strong. They seem mainly to aim at keeping the playstyle identical for without trait and just giving more dps.

While I am not particularly fond of all suggested traits there has come together a number of suggestions already. Personally, I like the traits which change the way you play or come with specific activation conditions or drawbacks. They make up for interesting play. Another half of traits seems to be aiming at solely more dps which is for my liking a bit to powergamey.

2 Likes
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