[NEW LORD] EDIT 2: he's a BERSERKER type!? He should not

Just picking a sentence, even if I don’t really disagree with it all.
Vermintide 2 is a game where you CAN’T choose your buid in QP, you can’t change your weapons once you know you’ll be against him.
So this is pretty important that, if you take a monster killer role, in your team, he can actually handle ALL types of monsters (not the “Hello there, so if it’s rat ogre, I can pulverize it in mere seconds, but I can’t do sh*t against a chaos spawn”).
We can probably find a middle ground between “being too good”, and “being useless or average”. And this is probably the issue there =p

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But the math shows that Longbow Huntsman is above average damage, so he’s definitely not useless. He performs better than his other contemporaries.

That’s not the point I make. The point I make is we shouldn’t change monster killer too much because they’re good at what they do. That’s kinda the whole point of getting them in the first place.

You are the only who wants to formulate a new reality.

  • videos show it clearly. Huntsman does less damage than WS and BH;
  • you say that this happens only if BH and WS score repeatedly headshots… true; BUT if you watch the video also HS must score only headshots to reach that damage; during the phase3 it’s hard to score headshots with BH and WS like it’s hard for HS;
  • as said more times BLUNDERBUSS is ANOTHER SPEECH. I’m talking about how Nurgloth steals the bosses killer niche to EMPIRE BOW Huntsman. If I play ManBow I choose to give up to some advantages in order to obtain other ones… like more damage vs bosses. But Nurgloth comes and nullifies my build;
  • you can love the new Lord, but that he’s way stronger in every aspect than the other Lords is just objective… Fatshark should see facts, not opinions.

But Emp Bow doesn’t play Maim.

That’s now saying much considering how utterly pathetic all the other lords (except Rasknitt) are.

I meant that Fatshark has made the Lord a berserker to prevent that BH and Shade onekill it… but this change penalizes Huntsman more than the other two careers.

You keep saying the same thing over and over again, even though it’s not true.

I can say the same thing about your answers… at least I bring some objective facts (for example tested breakpoints… but this is another speech).

As I have described, it is not only headshots but also that you have to keep hitting repeatedly while Huntsman can miss a shot or once without being penalized for it which is much more forgiving and realistic in the last Phase.

Huntsman bow still does above average damage. His niche is still there. And if you claim to make a boss killer build than you will have Maim on Empire Longbow because boss killing is exactly the niche for that talent. And if you check the videos you will notice that the effect of maim is not shown at all because they all start from full health Lord. Add Maim to it and Huntsman will be even better. Your build is not nullified, it is still working. However, if you insist to not use Maim despite claiming to have a Boss Killer build than that is ANOTHER SPEECH.

And you still ignore the situation that Huntsman active skill gives him a glaring advantage over the other shown careers as he can actually safely shoot at Nurgloth and can land more headshots. You know, under realistic conditions. Those are all facts.

I do not deny that the new Lord is stronger. But that is not an issue.

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I don’t understand, did we even watch the same videos? It clearly shows that Longbow Huntsman, with ult and concoction potion, did around the same amount of damage as BH with ult and concoction potion. That alone already solidifies that Longbow Huntsman does solid above average damage. BH will not be able to use his ult immediately every single time it’s up, he will not be able to always get the headshots needed to reduce his cooldown and continue to burst him down, while Huntsman can use his ult whenever, and even if he doesn’t get headshots, he will still do decent damage, and he’s not even forced to get headshots, unlike BH. Even without ult or any potion effects, you can keep shooting Nurgloth 24/7 with your longbow and deal steady damage. And once Nurgloth reaches below 50% health, he will do even more damage. You say that you wouldn’t take Maim with longbow, but in that case you wouldn’t take piercing shot with WS either, and we’re talking about minmaxing Nurgloth damage here.

How can you possibly say this when hagbane literally does like 0 damage? How can you say this when Shade deals like 50% less damage with her ult, while Huntsman comparatively deals more damage? And how can you say this when BH and longbow Huntsman, under best circumstances, deal around equal damage, while under more realistic circumstances, longbow Huntsman deals more reliable and steady damage? Not to mention that Bluntsman exists, and you say this is another speech but in your quote you say that this affects Huntsman more, regardless of his weapon choice.

How does it nullify your build? Are you saying that your ranged weapon doesn’t exist anymore? Are you saying it deals 0 damage? Are you saying you’re better off using melee? Are you saying that other classes deal significantly more damage? How does it completely nullify your build? You still have your longbow, it still deals damage, above average damage, more than other careers. It’s more steady, reliable. With Huntsman you have infinite ammo. You definitely do not deal more damage with melee. So what’s the issue?

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Emp power is an armor piercing sniper. Huntsman has burst damage. Your confusion on this is the impetus of many threads.

wow i know he is tanky. but this is beyond tanky. holy hagbane 0 dmg HOLY S…!!!
question if i want to do some more dmg what combination i need zerker-chaos or zerker-armor?

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About “unfair” damage: I’m not totally sure. His attacks (at least the knockback one) can be avoided. Unforgiving however: definitely. One mistake and you get juggled to your explody doom. And downed teammates lead to a wipe really fast.

Which brings us to the argument about him being out of whack compared to other bosses. Thing here is that we don’t disagree that that is so, but we seem to differ in how bad we think this is. I don’t mind. I like it, even. But I clearly see why other people disagree, especially when they are quickplaying to farm chests. Therefore my proposed solution to remove him from the quickplay list.

As to FS choosing to make him a berserker: I think it’s an assumption that this was done in order to prevent BH and Shade to gib him. We have no idea exactly why this decision was made. And in any case: Shade and BH are hurt a lot more by the protection vs. single huge hits they give him than by the armor type. And on higher difficulty classed a ranged class is at a huge disadvantage against him in the third fase anyway. No way to get many shots in with the tight space and minion horde anyways. Huntsman with his stealth specced ult can still outdamage anybody else, simply because he can actually get the shots in. Fase 3 is a melee fight, not a ranged fight.

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All this could be solved elegantly if there was a way to change your loadout after the mission starts and you see which boss map you got.
But that’s not likely to happen, so thanks Fatshark…

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During phase 1 and 2, it’s super-easy scoring headshots.

Phase 3 is a totally RNG mess. You have few small and rare windows to fire.
In this case burst damage (Huntsman) is useless. It’s better a single heavy damage (= BH’s ult).
Some random headshots, with HS, are pretty useless. You lose the %crit bonus in melee too.
As I will say below HS has the invisibility, sure, but you can exploit it only to score some bodyshots. The damage is pretty 0.

+50% headshot damage is way better vs bosses.

During phase 1 and 2 everyone can score “safe” headshots.
During phase 3 if you use the invisibility the Lord follows another player and you can’t aim for his head anymore.

Already answered, read above.

I’m not talking about Hagbane. In the video WS doesn’t use Hagbane.

For the rest, just see the videos, HS does the lowest damage.

If I use a bosses killer build, I must be efficient toward every boss. It’s a principle.
It’s like if I played as crowd control career and there was map without hordes.
It’s like if I played a shielded tank and there was map with enemies immune to stagger

Videos show that despite the burst damage… Huntsman’s damage is lower.
BH and WS are armor piercing sniper as well.

I have understood. As I was saying we don’t agree about the “solution”… but to have different opinions it’s ok :slight_smile:

About that Huntsman is or isn’t more penelized than other bosses killers… I already wrote my motivation in the first part of this message (I don’t want to bore you by repeating the same things).

Totally agree.

I didn’t see anything that answered me this. Please copy paste it.

I mentioned hagbane since it is one of Shades or WS’s weapons, and it’s heavily affected.

He dealt slightly less damage than BH.

But you are efficient towards Nurgloth with longbow Huntsman. What career is more efficient than Huntsman? BH is pretty equal if you always immediately use your ult and always get headshots, Shade is heavily penalized, Hagstalker is useless. I don’t think you understand what the word “nullified” means. If longbow Huntsman is so useless, then tell me what careers are better, and how much better are they? I’m not saying longbow Huntsman is the best, I think we’ve already established that Bluntsman is one of the best, but just because longbow isn’t literally the best then does it mean he’s absolutely rubbish?

It’s not burst damage, it’s sustained damage. Burst damage is what BH has with his ult, or Shade with her ult.

It deals very slightly less damage, and in a realistic scenario, he’s one of the best damage dealers due to all the points I and @Adelion made.

No, please copy paste it, repeat it again please. I don’t see your motivation. I don’t see how you’re correct.

And how well will BH do? Better than Huntsman you say? Again, Huntsman is sustained damage. And Huntsman is useless you say? He literally does 0 damage? He’s worse than any other career in the game at dealing damage to Nurgloth? You’re literally better off picking FK with s&s to deal boss damage? Or is HS actually comparable to BH, and under the best circumstances deals slightly less damage, is that it?

Oh, okay, so apparently BH will always get perfect headshots and burst him down no matter what according to you, but when Huntsman will use his ult then apparently he will only get bodyshots which allegedly do the same damage as a hagbane tick, sure. Apparently anything except headshots are completely useless and do nothing.

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The point that even though Huntsman does much less damage vs. Nurgloth than he does vs. some other single targets, he still does more damage than most other classes do, is actually a fair point. You say he gets outdone by BH and WS, but that is only true under theoretical circumstances where they chain headshots, and that won’t happen in the mess of a melee that phase 3 is. HS actually has an edge there with his stealth ult. And HS still outdoes pretty much all other classes with damage. Nurgloth is just very hard in general, not only to HS.

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We are not discussing phase 1 and 2 as established at the beginning because they are so easy.

This is contradicting and I have covered this before. BH’s ult has a delay which makes scoring headshots with him in this phase near impossible. And he is vulnerable during the drawing animation which makes the usage itself a huge risk. And even IF he is hitting a bodyshot, the damage is pitiful.

Huntsman can go invisible and safely land shots and will have better chances at headshots since he can stand still. You can still land headshots from the back, more difficult but possible. That aside your assumption is based on a 180° turnaround. He will follow someone else, but that player may be 2 m away from you or in a 90 ° angle to you. You still have the chance to shot Nurgloth from the side or even the front. Your chances for headshots are exponentially higher with Huntsman.

It is an arbitary rule set by you. But we don’t even have to discuss this as Huntsman Empire Bow is still exceptionally strong against Nurgloth. Under consideration of realistic phase 3 conditions he is among the best.

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You are incorrect. Comparing weapons to characters when it suits your Texas Sharpshooter argument. You are doing a lot of mental gymnastics instead of just making another build

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