New Character Archetypes?

So not to go into specific character concepts, but I was thinking about what kind of additions would actually make the game more interesting - we already see a number of roles within the game - melee assassin, tank, ranged special-killer, crowd control . . . There’s also support, but right now I think they need a bit of work to actually be viable.

So what other roles COULD there be? Healer is a really common one, but I do wonder about how that could be implemented. My best thought is that it’s more a “transfer” of health from the healer to the injured, but the healer has some skill-based method of restoring their green health, so it’s not just free recovery.

Another concept that popped into my head was a character who can summon a limited number of minions. The most obvious example would be something like a Necromancer summoning three relatively-weak skeletons from the ground as their active ability, who last for x amount of time unless killed by enemies. I know that of course within lore there’s problems with that - I only use a Necromancer as an easy way to get across the idea. I don’t think there is any way a proper Necromancer could fit into our current group - Kerillian, Kruber, and Saltzpyre ALL would REALLY hate one, and I can’t imagine Sienna and Bardin exactly liking them, either.

But the general idea of having summons - well, it’d be supremely useful and create a whole new playstyle dynamic, wouldn’t it? If you had them up with the right timing, they could save you from disablers, or give you the distraction you need from a boss to get off a desperate revive on an ally, or distract part of a horde (as well as providing DPS into enemies). Traits for them could make the summons explode or reflect some damage they take, or make them tougher and last longer.

Just a random idea I wanted to mention. I’m really curious what new playstyles could be thought up that fit within the current game system.

A healer would easily be too powerful (and doesn’t really fit into the game’s design, as the devs mentioned in a recent stream). About the only way I think it could work would be for their Career skill to converts others’ Temp health into permanent - or rather, only part of it, maybe half. That way everyone would still be more responsible for their own well-being first, but the “healer” could strengthen that and make the others last longer especially during lulls. I’m kind of thinking that the ability wouldn’t self-heal as a base, with that being a lv25 Talent. Another possible Talent would be Wound removal, but that would be too powerful unless seriously limited somehow (area, only one friend affected, usable only n times per map…) Some kind of support/buffer would be a more likely option. Either one has the danger of turning boring to play, though, as healers often are (unless supported by other kinds of abilities, which often make them too strong)

The minion master would certainly be interesting, but I’m not entirely sure it would fit the game that well. No, I don’t mean the lore, but the game’s style. After all, it’s a game of personal skill, and having an uncontrollable minion or three (and they would need to be uncontrollable, as you need to control yourself) takes away from that skill. Also, effectiveness of minions usually depend on the character build, and I don’t think the build aspect in this game is strong enough to facilitate that.

I can’t think of any specific ideas right now, but… A pure ranged character (compared to Slayer’s pure melee) could be interesting, but would likely be too strong when it works, and dead when it doesn’t. There’s no style I really miss, and the current Careers are quite modifiable beyond their basic abilities, so new Careers would probably be best (role-wise) as tweaked from the current roles, and moved to a different character (while staying lore-friendly, of course) to give more choices. Say, another full-melee Career, likely on Markus or Victor (I think Victor could be a better fit; Markus is too pragmatic for that), with less berserkery than Slayer.

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I agree that a healer is not a good idea; I only mention it because it’s one of the first ideas people think of regarding archetypes that don’t exist in the game.

I think the minion master could still be as skill-based as other characters; many character ults do not, in themselves, take much skill to use; Trueflight Volley and the Bounty Hunter’s hand cannon spring to mind. But where the skill comes in is in leveraging timing to maximize their value. You can just use them on cooldown, but then the value would be limited. So Minion Master’s active would be the same way; you’d choose the location they appear, but they only last for a limited amount of time before disappearing; you would not have them up all the time, but use them in times when it makes a difference. Even if they get ripped apart relatively quick in a bad situation (like if a patrol has been aggroed), if they buy you the five seconds needed to revive an ally, heal, or get off a bomb/pot, then you’ve gotten a lot of value out of them. Yet, it still is different, and creates a different experience than other characters who have the means to buy that time. The minions have different values and drawbacks. And even if they have just . . . stock ally AI, we really can’t say they’re too powerful, when we look at the power of other ults. Shade can massacre a boss. Handmaiden can murder an entire wave of a horde by dashing through them.

Your pure-range character seems really interesting. I imagine if they had some kind of limited melee option in like . . . a bayonet/bash, that could be interesting. I feel like they’d need more complex ranged weapons - OR be a dedicated spellcaster. Then they could have four potential ‘spells’ to use in various situations, giving them flexibility, but still a limit in that they have to manage overcharge (yet also not have to worry about running out of ammo completely). Maybe a physically frail Death caster or something . . .

Anyway, I’m not trying to dismiss you, just think more about it. I like trying to think outside the box here, maybe something interesting can shake loose. It’s at least interesting to consider. :smiley:

I, personally, would like to see another magic user, preferably a high elf that uses high magic. This would open up very interesting possibilities, as you could either give him staffs that reflect that or, even funnier, could make the staffs use one of three different winds of magic depending on the carreer. Tanky carreer could be Chamon (Metal), ranged dps could be Azyr (for all those delicious lightning spells), and utility/support could be Ulgu (shadow) or Shyish (Death).

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I respect the idea, but I simply cannot fathom talking about new careers while the existing ones still need to be worked on. Talents need to be reworked and some of the mechanics as well.
For instance, Battle Wizard’s ulti is so non-Bright Wizard like and non-lore like. Teleportation? C’mon!

  • Flaming Sword of Rhuin
  • Crown of Fire
  • Breathe Fire

All 3 straight from the lore, and all 3, at least IMO, more bright wizard-like and more cool than the teleport.

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Wouldn’t mind a Britonnian character.

They could be a fun new magic caster.

And ofc, who doesn’t want a pally xD

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Fire breathing battle wizard…f**k…yes. :metal::metal
Quick edit: The animation should look like a fire breather. Sienna puts the staff close to her mouth and unleashes napalm death, it should leave the ground ablaze for a short amount of time as well.

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I agree with that wholeheartedly. But speculation is fun, and Lounge is for more relaxed conversation anyway. While I still probably come off as quite serious in my posts (dunno, really), I try to joke around a bit outside discussing serious issues, and keep the Feedback side more serious (as it’s explicitly meant to give ideas about how to enhance the game, i. e. serious discussion, and I find people often don’t think all of their ideas through).

Unless you truly don’t care where you hit (as, I admit, is relatively often the case with Trueflight), you still need to aim both, and might need some trickery with the homing attacks. So some skill is needed for that, not to mention learning the timing for their effective use. But now (reading your response) an idea came to me: The “minion” type Career skill could work better as an effective distraction than a fighter, mostly drawing enemies away from you (and your allies) rather than actually fighting. Then it could even be done as some kind of illusion or intangible figure (and if it’s a fiery form without substance, could be attributed to another Career for Sienna), and some fighting or damaging ability could even be added with Talents. Consider it an inversion of sorts from the stealth or movement abilities: Instead of getting away or hiding from the enemies, you send the enemies elsewhere momentarily, giving breathing room and opportunities for aiming or other time-sensitive tasks.

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Well you’re right. Let’s speculate a bit :slight_smile:

Bretonian or Tilean, that would be interesting. I see lot of potential for some interesting banter between Markus and a Bretonian character :laughing:

Or what about master engineer Tilean character? He could carry some interesting contraptions and have a lot of bravado 'cause he’s Tilean.

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@Angerblaze:
I agree that the current characters need work, I heartily like your suggestions for alternate abilities for Battle Wizard Sienna. I’m a big fan of giving her a team buff ability (similar to have Flaming Sword of Rhuin works in TW:WH). :slight_smile:

And a master engineer from Tilea would be really interesting. I’m surprised we haven’t seen an engineer-type career yet, honestly! There’s a lot of ways to go with that ult, maybe even something like the turret the engineer in the old warhammer MMO got (though that was a Dwarven engineer).

@SmokerT69:
A Bretonnian would be interesting if they could figure out three unique careers to give them! The best idea I’ve heard is for a peasant character who can have a Man at Arms, Herrimault (outlaw), and . . . I dunno what else. But perhaps there are whole new styles of play that could be made?

@Yzneftamz:
True, I underestimate them a bit. But they still have a low skill ceiling, really, aside from knowing when to use them. And assuming you still have to select where your minions appear - that would still exist in this idea.

Though I think your idea of them just being ILLUSIONS is a really good idea! That would make a lot of sense, too, and would suggest Gray Magic, like Oleysa uses. Though . . . I have a hard time imagining Oleysa being playable. Would be kinda funny, though.

that gray wizard uh… christopher angel or something. i wanna play a cc class that doesnt do much dmg but annoying the crap out of everything :smiley:

maybe an aoe blind, an aoe confused, or aoe berzerk (enemies attack each other) as an ult. staff does splash slow, or tether enemies together, or debuff that damage target when target attacks (not neccessarily hit) or deal damage whenever target moves, the more it moves the more damage per seconds it deals.

melee would either put a stacking buff on urself per hit to increase the effect of ur staff’s cc, or it would increase the amount of targets cced for ur staff.

Another Winds of Magic user would be good to see I guess :3
If I’m correct, Celestial magic (can’t remember the exact name, the Azyr one) does get a lot of divination spells and all. I would really enjoy career that would give some sort of Sixth sens to the user as a passive, having some screen border flashing when specials are about to spawn, some small light trail leading toward nearest supply (preventing you to wander toward empty crates), etc…
I think the most underused role in the game is the non-tank support, we got Mercenary, barely played as one, Ranger Veteran, Handmaiden which turns out more solo queen than support princess, and Which Hunter Captain, which need a kit rework. Giving BW Flame Sword of Rhuin or other spells could put her in this support role too, with an ult talent (so potential support, like Mercenary).

The Vermintide I’d like to see would have squad of a tank, a cleaver, a sniper and a support, using according career depending on what you bring to the team (ie Mercenary support bring a lot of cleave and AS, thus you can take a medium cleaver, but more effective on bosses maybe, like Shade)

Bardin gyrocopter carreer when?

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I like your thoughts - months back in my thread suggesting a Skink character I gave it a Celestial magic-using career who had a passive like your sixth-sense suggestion, I think! :smiley: It would be quite interesting. Great minds think alike, perhaps.

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