Pinning Fire
You meant pinning fire
Regular Shredder is honestly fine. People sucking up ammo with shredder is a player issue
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This is what i do not get.
People who spam the shredder at hordes, will unneccessarily suck up a lot of ammo while not being a great asset to the team.
But the same thing happens with a lot of other guns including ALL of the ogryn guns (especially all full auto ranged weapons).
This is not an issue with this specific weapon.
Like you say, it is a player issue.
Some players just spam their gun at everything.
The shredder itself is not the issue.
The damage that it deals is not the issue.
If there is an issue at all, that would be the power boost from Pinning Fire.
If the blessing got nerfed and the weapon itself got higher base damage to balance it out, everything should be fine.
Then again, the number of people who even make use of the power boost for anything else than the weapon itself is so miniscule that it is probably not even a topic worth talking about in the first place.
As it is right now, the weapon with this specific blessing simply scales very well with player skill.
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It would not be fine if it was doing the same damage afterwards. Sure, the power reduction would give it less stagger and cleave but it should not be doing as much damage as it does now. Mutants already get deleted in 1 second with pinning fire and being less reliant on pinning fire would mean they would still die that fast.
Because people playing in damnation find it too easy pretty often. I see lots of offmeta players at this point. Big number chaser personality types arenât super prevalent right now either, they all moved on to the latest slop (diablo) since fatsharkâs update pace is slow af and build customization basically isnât a thing thanks to RNG.
Thatâd be my guess anyway.
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Probably on point. Iâve seen more insane flamer players after the flamers nerf than before. Before the Nerfs it wasnât a common thing to see flamer on NormalD-HiD and even then most of them werenât performing great either.
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I propose to start by reducing Maniac damage. It is currently very high on this weapon. It should take a considerable effort of continuous fire to take down a mutant, not half a clip 
25 pistol bullets on single mutant? This sounds enough to kill such abomination.
This argument wonât work without comparision to other small arms, like rifles / carbines.
I usually play with 2-3 randoms in the group.
Damnation is definitely not easy for those people. At least not for >95% of them.
Aside from that, in which game have a majority of players ever purposely not used something incredibly strong, just because it would have made the game too easy?
In pretty much every game that i have ever played, you would see the opposite happen. If something is actually overpowered and made the game easier, most people would use it, but this is obviously not what we see here.
There have always been some of those, but when ever a weapon was actually overpowered (like pre nerf Power Sword and pre nerf Flamer), almost everyone was using it (and performing reasonably well with it).
Yet somehow, the shredder that has not been buffed or nerfed in months (and according to some, is absolutely busted), is still not used by a lot of players (and the large majority of those who use it, do not perform well).
All the big number chasers left this game to play diablo 4, which is a completely different type of game from an entirely different genre?
When did they leave? Because at no point during Darktideâs existence, did i see a lot of people use this weapon (or perform well with it).
When ever something is actually overpowered, you see a large portion of the playerbase using it.
This is not the case here. The autopistol has consistently been one of the weapons that are somewhat regularly used, but never was an exceptionally common pick (although it is available to 3 out of the 4 classes and only really needs one blessing to work pretty well).
When ever something is actually overpowered, those who use it will perform pretty well with it, and will regularly outperform those who do not use it.
This is also not the case here. The number of players who i have seen performing well with the auto pistol across the over 1k missions i played (successfully) can be counted on one hand. When the weapon âoverperformsâ in the hands of less than 1% of the players, that is probably not a reason to nerf it.
The autopistol comes with a bunch of downsides and as i see it, it is a strong âplayer skill multiplierâ.
When used badly, it is worse than a lot of other weapons used badly.
When used well, it is better than a lot of other weapons used well.
It does not dominate the pick rate for the ranged weapon slot on any of the 3 classes that have access to it.
It does not dominate the damage/kills performance of the team, when ever someone uses it.
No reason to nerf it imo.
I donât really see the Autopistol as overpowered. Its effectiveness begins and ends in close ranges; with the necessity to hold down left click and stagger enemies, its on-demand damage is really poor. I would even say that as far as options go, itâs one of the most limited for what people think itâs good at.
It requires two specific blessings in order to output the DPS needed (Blaze Away III and Pinning Fire IV), and requires a good stat dump on top of that. Thatâs when the weapon feels broken in the right hands. If you get anything else, itâll feel fairly suboptimal without Veteranâs built-in damage buffs.
I do like it, however. I think itâs a strong competitor for a lot of close-range situations, especially with shredding mutants.
But the reality is that itâs really not that much more performative when you start using more versatile and reliable weapons.
The Agripinaa Infantry Autogun is a more economical and overall better gun for basically doing the same thing and even does a few other things better. Itâs my mainline weapon on my Veteran and I can see that itâs easily overlooked by most of the community as mediocre, because I hardly see any player use it. The Autopistol has better impact per bullet for stagger/CC and more volume down the line with more reliable crit, but thatâs about where its advantages end.
The AIG:
- Has no accuracy loss in hipfire (similar)
- Has little to no recoil in hipfire (better)
- Has strong per-bullet damage (better)
- Shreds weakspots on monstrosities (better)
- Can clear hordes with less ammo (better)
- kills maniacs quickly and in rapid succession (similar)
- Versatile range with a pin-point first shot (better)
- Versatile selection of blessings (better)
I would compare it to the Agripinaa braced autogun, which is another good full auto weapon but doesnât seem to perform as well as the shredder despite being a bigger gun. Agripinaa BAG could somehow be compared to an Ak-47 if we tried to find a real life counterpart. It fires 7.62x39 rounds. Autopistol if we take into account clip size, recoil and rate of fire could probably be firing a round in the range of the 7.62Ă25 Tokarev. 7.62x39 fired from a 500mm barrel produces approx 2100 J whereas 7.62x25 fired from a 120mm barrel only produces approx between 400 and 650 J (from wikipedia). My point is, a small gun shouldnât outperform a bigger gun of the same type. There should still be advantages taking a smaller gun - which are represented in this game such as mobility, draw and reload time in which the autopistol is rightfully better.
I just find that the maniac damage is really all over the place on the autopistol: here is a comparison of a maxed dmg/stopping power autopistol vs agripinaa BAG
Autopistol:
Agripinaa:
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As i can see the real problem, CQC (below 30 meters distance) weapons can hardly compete with shredder. Provide people with better options and they would gladly pick more different weapons on Damnation. Herecy is still playable.
An example:
Shotguns: Slow fire rate, low damage, slow reloading, requires proper blessings (hello RNG, this your fault mostly!), decent special ammo (but nothing good to be proud of and non-essential on Damnation).
Carbines:
Graia / Columnus infantry autoguns.
Slow reload, high recoil, decent / bad stability on continius shooting, crazy fire-rate / ammo consumption, crazy sway on continious firing, below average / low ammo pool.
Braced Carbines:
Fast reload, good ammo pool / clip size, decent stability, medium/low accuracy, no ADS - bad for marksmanship (still possible with Vet sharpshooter). Closest rival to Shredder SMG.
Flamer:
Slow reload, DoT mechanic (takes some time to deliver good damage numbers), wide spread / low range, require proper blessings to be efficient (hello again RNG).
So instead of making shredder below effecient - FS have to balance shotties and carbines. Because as is shotties and carbines are 2nd grade weapons. Unless those intended to be soâŠ
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This is literally all made up, the only thing an infantry auto can do better is long range and monster dps but it has less horde clear, less ammo and less dps. The blessings are also much worse than what youâd run on shredder.
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Sure man. I can tell you never actually bothered to use the AIG extensively or correctly.
The point here to take away is that calling for a nerf to a single weapon in a vacuum when you have no other experience to compare it to is very short-sighted. Shredder is not overpowered or broken, because there are alternatives that are similar or even better.
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