I want to buy the Ogryn Bull Butcher from Brunt’s Armory with the highest number possible for damage and then upgraded it. Does anyone know what that number is?
About math, if someone could explain me the formula to calculate bonus when the bonus are multiplicative… I would love.
You’re gonna need to be more descriptive than that
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80 on the damage bar is the highest
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Choose the weapon you like and Heavy attack, aim for the head.
Just the damage number on the weapon that can then be upgraded to 80%. None of those other stats.
Bull Butcher Mk III Cleaver
or
Krourk Mk IV Cleaver
Usually defence or mobility is dump stat.
i.e.
Wow just made me realise I have not used Ogryn for so long. For old times sake gave it a round, he needs a little buff to sprint speed. I forgot how strangely a shield heavy pierce is more deadly than the actual club it comes with…
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that damage number is determiend by those percentages. There is no variance there. 80% damage is 80% damage (and sometimes another bar like first target also affects it)
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Well if you want to maximize damage you want all those bars at 80 except mobility.
“Damage” sets the base damage.
“First target” dictates a factor for additional damage on the first target hit by the attack.
“cleave damage” affects the scaling of damage applied to subsequent targets hit by the swing after the first target
“Penetration” is a damage multiplier affecting the damage done to flak and carapace armored enemies.
Yeah I’m just saying OP seems to be under the impression that the damage number (as in the actual displayed e.g. 384 damage) has a range of its own. It’s not like that, it’s just the base damage number it has after bars applied.
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I’d honestly consider dumping cleave damage on Knife, especially if taking the Mk IV. Best in slot mobility is like the main thing knife has going for it, it’ll still clean hordes fine with 60 cleave damage but difference between 60 and 80 mobility in terms of sprint speed is noticeable.
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Mobility only really gives you something like 1.8% sprint speed going from 60 to 80. It’s really not worth caring about. The dodge distance difference is literally in the milimeters also. Other than these two things it does nothing. So you’re realistically only gaining a very small percentage of sprint speed, which is going to be imperceptible.
Far better to max the cleave, which does realistically cut time to kill, especially on the cleavers which hit many targets for actual relevant damage, so cleave damage distribution going up by like 20% is pretty good.
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If you hover over the stat you’ll see its min-max range. For example for Force Greatswords that I’m looking at now:
To get the Heavy Attack Damage, you take:
- A: Minimum dmg (156.25)
- B: Damage range (218.75 - 156.25 = 62.5)
- C: Your stat’s percentage of that range (ie. if your Damage stat is 80%, it’s 62.5*0.8 = 50)
Finally you add the relevant variables. So at 80% Damage, it’s A + C, or 156.25+50 = 206.25. But ofc you also need to consider other stats too, like Stopping Power, Range etc depending on weapon. And the only way to see those hidden armor / enemy type modifiers is through the details pane.
Long story short, for damage in practice the only way to get the meaningful data is to just upgrade a weapon to full, then look at the details pane. But for almost every other stat the formula is as above. Because Damage is basically never a dumpstat, you don’t need to ponder about compromises there. Instead, you just want to know the dumpstat and put everything else at 80%. In the endame we always use fully upgraded weapons after all.
But you can use the formula above to dig up data like this stuff I added up for psyker staves a while back:
In this case it revealed how Charge Speed and Warp Resistance for example have completely different scaling & priorities depending on the staff. Also when I said almost every other stat, Quell Speed is the exception. It has logarithmic scaling and the values presented in details bear no obvious relation to the actual scaling at all. In short, 60 vs 80% difference in active/passive quelling speed is absolutely massive and it should almost never be treated as a dumpstat.
tldr; Best & fastest & easiest way to get the actual dmg out is to:
- Upgrade a weapon to full with all dmg related stats maxed at 80%
- Grab the numbers per enemy type from the weapon details pane
- Calculate the percentage of finesse dmg over base
- So if a weapon has 100 base dmg, 200 WS (weakspot), 200 crit, and 300 CWS (crit WS) → its finesse portion is +100% for WS / crit, and +200% CWS
- It’s this part of dmg that gets buffed by finesse bonuses, so if you get say +50% WS dmg from talents or blessings, that’s +50 (200-100 = 100*0.5 = 50) dmg
- Weapons have completely different finesse dmg and are not equal, some might get hundreds of percents bonus, some only get +20-30%, which ofc means that finesse buffs likewise will massively favor some weapons over others
As for the damage calculation in combat, ranged for example has roughly this pattern:
- ((FinesseDmgPortion * FinesseBonus) + BaseDmg) * (RangeBonus + EnemyTypeBonus) * Strength * DebuffBonus
- CWS scales with either your crit or WS bonus, whichever is higher
In short, most stuff is always additive, but Power (or Strength now) is a multiplicative on top, and debuffs like Skullcrusher are again multiplicative.
Ofc since we’re dealing with melee, there are a lot of other variables too, like cleave, and attack type. Some attacks like unique followups, push-attacks or in some case specials don’t even have a damage table in details so the only way you can check them is by testing them in practice. Most attacks fall under the definitions below, but some are anomalous and don’t fit into any of them.
For example zealot’s Crusher’s push-attack fits ALL attack types simultaneously (it has insane finesse bonus, cleave, stagger, all-in-one and doesn’t fit the profile of any of the other Crusher attacks). Or Deimos Force Sword 2:nd heavy, which uniquely staggers / knocks down every single non-boss enemy in the game including mutants, even though its stagger value isn’t anywhere near high enough to do that.
So the true final tldr;
The game is extremely complex, and there’s no simple way to sum it all up nicely as you asked. There is never a single number that can even remotely represent a weapon’s full capabilities. And many of the strongest weapons have several tiers of hidden or difficult to understand information all of which play out into how it works in practice. Then you add builds, gameplay tricks & skill etc. on top which can often exponentially expand on all those properties.
Edit: Sry about that pic with staves, it mixes the + & - at certain points in the Diff column but I’m sure you get the idea. 
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Fair enough, I’ll admit I don’t know the actual numbers there, I felt like I could feel the difference in sprint speed, but I guess that was just placebo.
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New player experience “Seems like a nice chill casual PvE game”
Seeks help from experienced forum members
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funny part is he’s getting hit with lectures but I’m 99% sure he just thought the base damage comes in a random range. To be fair he wasn’t being clear at all I guess
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