that is bizzare
I wouldn’t take Mr. E’s opinion seriously even if my life depended on it. I don’t trust a dude who literally uses ReShade on livestreams to avoid interacting with lights-out modifiers to give anyone advice on how to balance a game.
That aside, yeah, folks yelling that the game needs to be balanced around Havoc are usually pretty clueless on the more serious problems of the game (sorry Youtubers if you’re reading this, you’re usually those folks). If anything, regular Heresy through Auric Damnation need a bit of a bump up in the difficulty, it’s become quite easy to steamroll regular missions even with pubs unless you’re REALLY getting screwed with the team comp.
Sure, some weapons could certainly use a bump up in their efficacy (combat shotguns, some of the autoguns, and elecrokinetic could probably use a full-blown rework of it’s own at this point), but all things considered the game is too easy right now outside of Havoc for a lot of people I’m starting to feel, which is kind of bad, because IMO it usually makes it feels like there’s no inbetween of “I’m going to absolutely crush this map” and “I’m here to get my head blown off immediately by 40 gunners”.
extraction shooters games usually are used for those games like tarvok and the like
4 player coop is usually the right term, like drg, vermintide, left 4 dead 2 and so on.
unfortunately a niche genre and not so much of them, they should make them more.
because 4 player coop horde based it’s nice, and dt/vermintide are the ones that excel in gameplay and gameplay loop, but not so much content wise
LOL, par for the course.
Nerf:
- Ogryn
- Zealot
- Duelling Sword & Knives silly mobility
- Duelling Sword Silly AP damage
- Streamers
Buff:
- Weapons which cleave values make them not that usable in Havoc
Fix:
- Audio
- Tell the art team they are great, but it would be good to find a balance between VFX, colour pallet and clarity of picture / enemy visibility.
There, I found the balance in the Force.
on god
There has to be an affect that needs to be toned down, my FPS goes through the roof whenever I’m on last wound and the you’re-gonna-die filter comes up.
I still remember when “infinite cleave plasma gun” was a really popular suggestion, then we got it, and now it’s a popular nerf suggestion.
If that’s what allows the plasma gun to be Havoc viable then cleave is a problem that required Havoc to be tough enough for the plasma gun.
The assault shotguns just hurt me.
They so good in their presentation (animations, sounds, feedback)
And statistically they’re just awful to use even on mortis with all the buffs they still just feel so underwhelming when you shoot a pox walker and it’s not a perfect shot so it just shrugs it off.
LOL You guys are killing me, y’all are funnier on the weekends
no no let him cook lobotomizing 1% of the player base might be easier than balancing the game
Zealot literally cannot die and has near 100% crit. Skill issue.
That’s what I couldn’t believe, playing DT after V2.
Shade was a glass canon. Many players are always attracted to stealth assassin archetype. But good shades were rare, because you should use your buffs smart while avoiding being hit.
Stealth Zealot can have damage reduction and regenerate huge amounts of toughness by just stealthing and dodging. It’s obscene.
Ok… show me a proof that it has 100% crits rate (my stats show more 50% crits rate with blazing piety and 25% with my martyr builds (with fury the faithful)).
I wait… take your time.
(Brain issue ? maybe you have not learnt math… don’t know)
In fact Zealot relies on crits… IoD problem. Shroudfield I dislike totally, and I think it relies on CDR too much and that make the build broken as you can chain stealth + backstab.
But Ogryn… it was easy before, it is even more easy.
And if you cannot see it, I would return you the favor. Skill issue.
Shroudfield build is too powerful. Culprits? pious pious cut throat + IoD that permits you to spam the ability.
(But tbh, that’s really a gameplay I dislike totally… so not played for more than 1 year)
Base crit chance: 5%
Riposte: 20%
Blazing piety + crit node: 25%
Scrouge: 30%
80% crit chance max
Proove…
You added multiplicative bonuses… 
Show some metrics… if you’re so sure. In game I am not sure you will maintain at all time Riposte and scrouge at +30%
Let’s remind the truth dispenses by harlekin:
Zealot literally cannot die and has near 100% crit. Skill issue.
The cannot die I can understand (even if obviously you can die). But the 100% criticals at all time… No sorry… I don’t buy.
We got a response video
I feel kinda honoured
Basically, havoc is fatshark’s wave of the future and they themselves are balancing around it and it’s going to be he their main focus so the game might as well be balanced around that.
I mean agree that fatshark’s direction with the game is havoc it’s the only thing added in dt that will get actual updates to it unlike the commissary and that yes there are weapons that need a leg up assault shotguns my beloved. But I’m still against how havoc has to be designed to provide a challenge for the very obvious outliers to the game.
I’m well aware that tactical dt is long dead and we’re now playing as eldar aspect warriors at this point and that’s not changing ever hell we might even reach c’tan shard tier at one point (still vulnerable to cutscenes and named loyalist space marines who don’t know what helmets are)
Hell even if fatshark are completely mute to us that isn’t going to change my opinion on havoc is a horrendously designed mode where difficulty is the ai director has its fingers stuck on elite spawn keys and it’s the only way it can communicate. I have no mouth and I must spawn more crushers. I still think the first way this can be fixed is nerfing the things that require havoc to be like this in the first place.
Also he brought up hd2 as a if they nerf the op stuff the silent majority of the community will revolt and all quit and leave negative reviews. Which I just find a blatant bending of the truth to suit his points.
So I’m going to explain what happened in hd2. 1 nerf update didn’t cause the community backlash to reach its fever pitch it was many subsequent updates that were all predominantly nerfs in a game where nothing felt satisfying to use and when ever something saw use they nerfed it into oblivion. It was a game where standard weapons that could hardly kill chaff. Compounded with some weapons would have a glitch that would make them stronger able to do things they shouldn’t so they nerfed them and then fixed the glitch later and then never reverted the nerf that accounted for the glitch leaving the weapon now useless. It was like this for several months of the community not being listened to at all until the community reached their breaking point and went okay arrowhead clearly don’t want us as customers and they started leaving arrowhead then quickly realised oh our live service game needs players and started to course correct.
It’s disingenuous to bring this up as an example for a dt op weapons nerf because
A. The guns getting nerfed are actually op
B. We have been receiving nothing but predominantly buffs for over a year now hell ogyrn was turned into a walking war crime at our request hell we saw what he was going to become and we went no that’s not enough do more and they did.
Sure there will be backlash to nerfing the outliers but it’s not going to be at a hd2 level.
I’m 3 minutes in. Going to watch the whole thing. But DT isn’t “more explosive” and “less tactical” across the board than it was at launch. I just posted this in another thread, but this is what Damnation looked like 2 weeks after launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUCfVNmQMI
If you run Damnation today with sub-optimal kit, it’s almost exactly the same.
We have higher difficulties, including Havoc now, because we’ve got a massively expanded kit (some of which needs nerfs/buffs), and some people are MONSTROUSLY better at the game. But the idea that DT has fundamentally changed is one I really reject. The original flavor of the game is there if you’re a) not 500 hours in or b) willing to engage in the game with a handicap.
Anyway, maybe off-topic!
EDIT: I got through the whole video, but will (mostly) hold my tongue. Frankly, I found it a wee bit offensive – yes, almost everyone who has engaged with this topic here does understand what power creep is, and it’s exactly “letting the OP weapons/talents set the bar” (Arrowhead’s folly be damned) – and I hope we don’t have to watch another video to have a conversation with a streamer about this, or any other, topic.
This is how it works?
You can defenitely mantain this very much, especially during high intensity moments alas hordes or elite pack attacks, which is pretty much most of the times in high Havoc
He said “near”, is 80% not near enough for you?
You’re right they look additive.
However, except maybe shroudfield build, but there are no way to reach 80% critical rate on an entire mission.
I have never reached this, and did not see ONE guy reaching that.
In all the scoreboards I have seen… never had a zealot player that reached that (even with the DS that should be absolutely nerfed and that can get a lot the riposte bonus if you put also agile).
And no, he has not said 80%. He said near 100%. Near 100% is 95+, or 90% if you are very kind. Not 80%.
As I stated in the vid, if you watch my back catalog I am certainly not opposed to nerfs. On the chopping block for me:
GOLD TOUGHNESS
Shout
Plasma
Flame Staff
Flamer?
Probably chorus
(Rumbler, but Im having fun with this pls dont nerf yet im not ready)
But there has to be a give and take. A patch that is a bunch of nerfs across the board will SUCK. People will hate it, and its also not the sort of patch fatshark is interested in making. Every mainline patch for the game NEEDS to contain new content or advertisables, something to draw in players. Nobody is biting for “we nerfed the top 25% of weapons!” BUT they will be super stoked if the lowest 50 percentile gets buffs (and they can slide a couple slight nerfs to the op stuff at the end of the patch notes.)
I think the point i really want to hammer home is that the design goal has clearly shifted at fs. Ogryn is definitely OP. BUT he is so fun, this is genuinely one of the most positively received changes i have seen made to the game in 2 years. So power creep is on the horizon, we have set sail for a game dynamic that will be shaped largely around havoc as the endgame. All signs point to it… So if playing havoc is going to become this assumed thing, there should also be the implicit assumption that all weapons are at least somewhat capable of participating in the endgame just like that assumption is there for the “midgame” already.
One thing I didnt mention in the vid is that this power disparity between weapons has always existed, and havoc just exacerbates it.