I Agree with his Video.
Also, (from that clip alone) Mr.E is bad at Ogryn.
1 Like
I am genuinely convinced that Fatshark are using Spreadsheet Balancing for Psykers at this point. They keep buffing Scrier’s Gaze constantly because it’s “not used enough” compared to Telekine Shield and Venting Shriek.
This is due to two reasons:
- Telekine Shield is a huuuge Havoc Meta for Psykers.
- Many Psyker Players aren’t using Guns because they play Psyker exclusively to use Force Weapons, and Scrier’s Gaze doesn’t synergise with Force Staves in the same way that it does with Guns.
Fatshark takes one look at the disparity between Staff Psykers and Gun Psykers, says “huh, Scrier’s Gaze mustn’t be good enough!” and then buffs it even more. Scrier’s Gaze, however, is BROKEN AS SH*T when you play Gun Psyker with it.
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Hell, Scrier’s is broken with Purg and Trauma since both can crit fish to apply infinitely scaling aoe damage. The total dominance of the meta options has given people the opinion that the other options aren’t even viable or remotely good. Like when was the last time anyone sang the praises of Tactical Axe?
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I like Mr E, hes got a sexy voice, but hes in the wrong side of the river on this one
i think this guy has the correct prospective on the matter
we already got the derank baby buffs for those who touch base, if you want to play off meta just stick to normal missions, i do it, if i’m feeling queing for an auric mission to play my vet with exec stance i do it
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One of the big problems with balancing around Havoc is that a lot of the Havoc modifiers (the hidden ones specifically) are very very Havoc specific. Enemies getting harder to cleave devalues certain weapons. Enemies getting more HP makes many ranged weps hit worse breakpoints and in combination with -75% ammo heavily devalues them.
This is so bespoke to Havoc that if you buff e.g. an autogun to perform great on Havoc, it will singlehandedly destroy every threat that pops up on Aurics where it hits double the breakpoints and has 4x more ammo available.
If we say that this is a problem that needs solving (Which isn’t a given: what’s wrong with only the meta being good on the meta sweatlord gamemode?) then the sole singular working approach I can think of would be to give weapons custom balance on Havoc. This could either be hidden changes that counter the hidden Havoc modifiers (like just making autogun ammo reserves huge on Havoc to compensate) , or make Havoc only weapons that come with unique modifiers and blessings and via that way custom balance them upwards to cover how the Havoc modifiers hit them TOO hard.
Although at that point one might ask why the modifiers exist in the first place, and it feels like a total waste of dev time to custom balance new blessings for a side game mode. So I would argue just letting certain weapons be trash on Havoc is fine. It’s not meant to be a fully well balanced base game experience, it’s meta hell for sweatlords where people who minmax hard can put on a dueling sword and plasma gun and still face a challenge. I for sure don’t want every weapon to be on that level.
15 Likes
No?
Mortis is easy it’s too easy my problem is that balancing weapons around the prerequisites of havoc’s meta will result in more of the game being like the ease of mortis, that’s a problem.
Havoc the ‘competitive’ mode of dt and we’ve see what happens with modern AAA PvP games that balance themselves purely around the 1% competitive audience and instantly bleed their casual audience. I’d rather dt not follow suit.
As said back with vermintide 2 they didn’t need to design the whole game around solo cata players who made up less than 1% of the player base they found their fun by creating their own challenges in the game. Sadly dt really limits your ability to do this and balancing around havoc will limit it even further.
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Recon Lasgun should be nerfed by the way, it makes no sense that it yelds more efficency than the other las weapons
or god forbid heavy stubbers
its not op like old autopistol but its getting near level
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Honestly the thing that stands out most in the vid is there’s no mention about melee weapons or blessings
You’d think a vid talking about balance would talk about them in particular especially when most blessings suck and many weapons seem custom designed to go against carapace but seems he’s not interested in that
3 Likes
to be fair, “every” loss so far going with randoms was due to the erratic boss spawns from time to time and no communication/fast enough situational awareness/divide and conquer.
BUT thats the way i chose it so, while angry about demotions, i dont see the mechanical parts being any other failures than mine.
things usually are doable and cohesive to a point
(and we had off-meta loadouts through these encounters as well,exec stance vets, various ranged melee that are considered “worse”)
until twin captains spawn on top of a normal one and maybe someone in his panic pulls a “normal” boss instead of kiting backwards.
exception was vigil station upper elevator, with 1 odd one out, we had the captain/twin combo right in our face sometimes the door wasnt even open.
maybe fatshark reconsiders not everyone wants a premade (various reasons) or has a premade, but yeah the “random-chicken-flock” breaks formular has been this boss combo.
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Almost feels as if OP is a sockpuppet trying to advertise the video so it gets views.
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Dang you worked it out
me consistently posting about wanting nerfs has actually been a big psyop by me Mr E’s biggest fan to shill for this one Mr E video months in the making you got me it’s over.
Hell you must have seen the big E in my user name that must have tipped you off
9 Likes
the reason we got havoc is that the normal game became too easy. now balancing around havoc means destroying everything below effortlessly.
imo it’s more engaging the other way, when there were less numerous, but more capable enemies, so the game didn’t have to spawn such numbers that it can’t play all sound cues and the enemies stick together in one blob.
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At some point in the last year or two I started to feel myself age a little as a gamer. Where once I enjoyed a progression of stress tolerance - difficulty 4 up to 5, regular to auric, auric to maelstrom - gradually I started to find the sheer everything and the kitchen sink design of challenges tedious.
My friends were keen to clear havoc 40 so I joined this endeavour, but I’m not sure that I found the process strictly enjoyable. We all bounced off havoc 2 in fairly short order and are mainly playing other games right now.
Anyway, it seems to me that the arms race between buffs to player power and buffs to enemies have produced an endgame challenge paradigm which does not emphasise the most enjoyable aspects of darktide.
8 Likes
LOL
They already deal (for skilled psyker) 30 to 50% more damages (when it is not simply the double) than other classes…
And the problem is that they gave a mode for a tiny part of the community.
I don’t see the interest to ruin the game for the majority while making Havoc abordable, and therefor defeating the concept behind Havoc (being hard and so hard that you may fail more than succeed).
So I repeat that this is a dumb move.
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Fatshark will probably listen to this to some extent, they balance the game based on what the small group of tryhards creators tell them to do.
It worked so well in the past…
Havoc was probably added in the first place to make these kind of people happy, because I’ve never seen anyone both in these forums and on the steam focus asking for a harder difficulty after auric malestrom was a thing, maybe It’s just me but I really didn’t.
How many different game modes does darktide have already?
Havoc are the hardest missions and it is logical that to the hardest battle a strike team will bring the best weapons they can to be effective. Even in the lore a special strike team that’s about to face a ton of big and heavy armoured enemies is bringing plasma guns, bolters, power swords and evisoraters. That being said the ‘best’ weapons should be the ones that are the best and strongest in the lore and not some random laspistol, knife and dualing sword..
I’m not saying that buffing those listed weapons (or any other weapon) now would solve anything tho. We have had a fair bit of power creep since launch and further buffing a lot of weapons would just take fun out of lower level missions and even aurics.
I’d idealy have a totally new way of balancing things. About a year ago I have seen a post either here or on reddit from a person who suggested giving the weapons lore accurate strengts and weaknesses BUT also a new rating (for example: a fully upgraded 500 stat power sword or bolter would have a rating of 200, but a devilsclaw would have 150, a combat knife would have a 130 etc.). Every game character would have a limit within which they can choose their primary and secondary weapon they want to bring to a certain mission (for example: a lvl 30 operative for a standard mission would have a limit of 350 - so can bring a bolter and a knife 200+130=330, but cannot bring a bolter and a power sword 200+200=400). And to keep the games interesting the limits could change based on the type of missions - for example: for normal missions 350 for auric 380 for havoc 400. These are just examples obviously this system would need a bit more refinement but you get the point.
3 Likes
We’re at 5 now
Regular
Auric
Special mission
Havoc
Mortis
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I think what we’ve been saying is that we want the amount of viability across the class achieved with the rework (nearly every weapon is good and there are only a small handful of bad talents remaining) to be the standard for the other classes.
His place in the meta is much better than before and he comfortably keeps up with the other power spikes achieved by the strongest builds elsewhere. So the intraclass balance is better.
But a big patch focused only on nerfing the overperforming options across the game (including Newgryn’s busted stuff) so that intraclass balance is maintained but the overall game difficulty goes back up is something we’ve all wanted and clamored about for ages lol
It’s up to Fatshark to make that decision. Personally, I think they’re scared after what happened to HD2.
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I get them being afraid even after their own experience after power sword got nerfed but they also nerfed autopistol to complete non functionality and people really didn’t get upset about that because people got sick of ammo hog spammers that just mag dumped everything that moved being a constant in every lobby.
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I agree on this…
I cannot play zealot actually. The class is just a joke compared to Ogryn
And I don’t care if several think I am totally wrong.
Fact is, things are terribly easy now with the new Ogryn.
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