Seriously, please don’t balance the game around Havoc.
Havoc Viable isn’t a healthy goal for the rest of the game, and, look, I know y’all and how games will always be balanced at the highest difficulty. That’s fine, but Havoc is best as a challenge mode that’s separate from the rest of the game.
I know that was the intent, that’s why there’s a party finder and negative HP, toughness, and ammo modifiers and, hate to admit it, that’s what the de-ranks was for. But I also know from now until forever the playtesters are going to take all future content directly to Havoc 40 and base their feedback on that, intentionally or not. That’s just how we are in this game.
For every post and video talking about how X isn’t Havoc viable there’s a guy using X to solo Havoc 40 using a controller made from a potato. Darktide allows skill expression, it’s pretty rad to see. But back to topic, to make things “Havoc Viable” FS will tweak things to allow players to casually meet the challenge and bypass skill expression and, I mean, that’s how you get an ogryn soloing 7 plague ogryns without moving and multiple forums on fire for dueling sword nerfs.
I don’t know what else to say… I think keeping power levels around Damnation keeps Auric, Maelstrom, and Havoc rewarding to play.
If you are talking about Ogryn being reworked. That wasn’t only for havoc it was also for the Ogryn to match other Classes in terms of power + to actually allow it to tank/use light attack in its heavy only non versatile lack of builds, Since Ogryn already had the least amount of weapons/build variety. Can you elaborate on what is actually changed due to havoc only? Other than your conspiracy theories that the helpless game testers will only balance from havoc only. Because they were the ones that didn’t want to Ogryn changed said it was usable people were the ones that cheered for a Ogryn rework. YouTubers even did a 4 Ogryn melee only havoc 40 run in 1.0 havoc.
In reality I have the impression that the game is not even balanced around T5… but at lower levels. Here a little less, in Vermintide 2 it was clear the game was balanced around Legend instead of Cataclysm
However, for me, no. Even Havoc must be balanced. This is a video game and must offer quality contents, well balanced and reasoned… not the playground of those who have to measure their ego (I’m not referring to you). Super difficult? Yes. Unfair? Nope
So does that mean things that are havoc viable but horrendously and ridiculously overpowered for damnation should be nerfed?
The game certainly didn’t become balanced around havoc with visions and nightmares beyond ogyrn getting a few things that actually made him not the most difficult class to play in the mode by far. Most of the sandbox remains utterly useless to you’re intentionally gimping yourself to use on havoc veteran being the most railroaded class for the mode.
I’m pretty sure both Vermintide games were balanced to the highest difficulty. I wasn’t there for most of V1, but V2 very specifically had a whole event when the community held enough torches and pitchforks until the Big Balance Beta happened.
This game I am certain was mostly tuned to Damnation. It’s messy, but the biggest change to this game was the talent tree and when the enemies all got buffed.
Enemies were buffed to match the power creep, and then more weapons and player/class buffs were rolled out to match that.
Ogryn’s the easiest example to use because everything about him was very closely tuned to pre-buffed enemy values, but he wasn’t the only thing to fall behind, tbh.
Don’t take the CBT out of the CBT mode is my new motto (wip).
Yes I’m being hyperbolic, but I think it’s completely fine for sweatlords to have their exclusive challenge mode. It’s cool that Havoc is this big mountain that can’t be climbed without team work from 99% of the players.
I just don’t want even more power creep to match Havoc’s difficulty, and I see people specifically asking for that. There’s a thread right now you can click on about wanting Ex Stance on veteran to be buffed for Havoc and even tho I’m an Ex Stance hater, that just sounds bad for the game.
Finally perhaps the can balance havoc to be an actual challenge and not 20 crushers 10 gunners with a boss and a captain the mode oh and that captain rapidly heals all enemies around him
They have something with the player nerfs and use of more bosses and captains and unique modifiers but the mode isn’t balanced around being cbt it’s just balanced around trying to be a challenge for the most horrendously overpowered gear and perks in the game so they designed that challenge to be as bs as possible it’s a power scaling nightmare.
Fatshark really need to realise wow perhaps those abilities that are supposed to be limited use being able to be used all the time and perhaps having weapons significantly better than the rest isn’t healthy for the game.
Honestly can they just stop with havoc and give auric some attention, I’m really sick of ‘s approach of add thing, people like thing. Never do anything else with thing focus on their next whim.
I do believe Darktide has hit critical mass over what can be displayed on screen without melting CPUs and, off topic, it’s probably why Mortis Trials are kind of boring since 4 ogryns with infinite boxes will crash Sweden’s power grid.
Look, I’ve been trumpeting the ‘nerf players dammit’ horn for a while now. I think everything needs to be toned down a great deal. And Havoc? Havoc is pretty hard for the majority of the game’s player base. I think it needs to STAY that way, while the rest of the game is adjusted so the meta is less stifling.
focusing on Auric, the buffs to Ogryn are honestly way too much.
seeing beginner Ogryns who barely use push, block, or dodge just spam light attacks and plow through everything really makes me feel how ridiculous it is
I still think an easier solution is to nerf DS/Knife, plasma, gold toughness, some of the CDR stuff, inferno staff and lastly some of the egregious new ogryn stuff (bully club light spam undying Ogryn)
Now we would be forcing people to get good to beat the Toxic Havoc instead of having Havoc be playeable by players who shouldn’t be there
It’s weird they want havoc to both be this hardcore elite pros only mode
But it’s also the only thing players have to go to for new content and any sort of regular updates and is the only thing in the game designed around regular engagement. Like damnation and auric have been left behind and it’s all in on havoc from fs
Like they’ve designed a casual pve game to have what is a essentially a ranked competitive pipeline
It’s quite possibly the dumbest thing I think they could have done.
Just for clarity, I’m not picking on ogryn, I just have way more time in him so it’s easy for me to use him as an example.
Maybe I should have put this in the OP, but this thread is a response after I saw a post saying Revolver was underpowered, several Reddit posts saying the double-barrel was under powered, a havoc tier list video that put psyker last and said veteran only had one build (and also said all Ogryn builds are havoc viable), and a thread today that said Ex Stance isn’t Havoc viable.
Do I vouch for Ex Stance? No. Have people astronomically better at this game than me used Ex Stance in Havoc successfully? Yes and I will respectfully differ to their opinion on it if they decide to give it.
I’ve seen youtube videos of people playing Double Barrel in Havoc 40, it’s trash.
In that video the player got basically carried by their team who had more meta loadouts. Can’t kill the elites with the main weapon, can’t kill the specials or shooters in the distance as the class which must deal with those targets. On auric it’s at least servicable, though grossly overrated by some players.
Just because someone can complete or get carried in Havoc with a weird build, doesn’t mean the ability or the weapon is in a good place.
I’ve completed high Havocs with Exe Stance multiple times, on average it’s just 25% power damage buff which doesn’t do much. It’s like you’re running an additional modifier just for yourself to make the game harder.
Darktide is the only game I know of where tons of players seem to think the highest difficulty needs meet their skill level on any loadout they choose.
