Let’s be real. After Heresy (20+), it’s doable only with a few meta builds, no variety.
All the good job Fatshark did with buffing other weapons and class updates was thrown into a trash bin.
Huge step back.
Havoc was made for Elitists. You’re totally correct.
I think everyone is agreed on this.
Pity that only a few builds are viable right now.
But what a rich source of data for balance analysis is now coming in to the FatShark data lake-house. If they don’t use that, then I think that’s the biggest opportunity f_up they’ve made in DT.
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Peoples call for more challenge - they get more challenge.
Me like havoc (its not because of builds, but on 35+ havok peoples try to coordinate and most of times friendly to u).
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I’ve seen this with vermintide and vermintide 2 when playing the hardest missions, like trial of the foolhardy and fortunes of war or even just cataclysm difficulty when it first came out on vt2
in the first fiew weeks its hard, then after a year or two you start doing them with meme builds
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Problem is, that the performance of weapons and talents outside of havoc can not reasonably be balanced based on their performance in havoc.
Some things are amazing in auric missions, but can be pretty bad in high lvl havoc.
Other things are not very valuable in auric missions, but very good in high lvl havoc.
What they could do based on new havoc data would be to buff things that underperform in both, or maybe nerf things that overperform in both.
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I failed a blight modifier like 3X before I got a zealot playing with beacon of purity and completely trivialized the modifier. The real problem is sure you can play with non meta gear but most people are not good enough to play with an infiltrate vet and succeed when your team would be far better off you playing with survivalist and taking shout. Also I really hate the randomness of teammates and people just generally treating these missions like theyre some walk in the park and they can just mess around like its some low int damnation game. People dont care to lose and I think part of that stems from only the host going up if they win and players just think well maybe we will win the next one. People are going to play with whatever they are comfortable with but this mode is about team play more than anything and unfortunately most people simply dont care.
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I think this sums up a common gripe about Havoc vs. the standard mission board.
On regular or auric I can make any build work - some might not be 100% optimal for all conditions but as a Zealot if I want to run eviscerator / fury I can make it work on any condition. Loner works. Chorus works. I can also run noodle hammer, or combat knife, or whatever.
In high-level Havoc I have to run Chorus with a fast weapon. All other builds are magnitudes more difficult and are likely to get my group and I killed.
Now if one of the many conditions in Havoc were optimal with Chorus that would be one thing, but all conditions pretty much require it. Charging into groups, throwing caution to the wind, or doing anything that isn’t spamming dodge doesn’t really work.
Same goes for all other classes. Spam dodge, buff toughness. Everything else is more or less dead weight. This is why Ogryn have had such a bad time (not impossible, just worse than other classes) because they don’t even have that one super defensive support build to use.
I sort of wish Havoc were another tab on the mission board with extra wacky conditions (including fading light etc. but not exclusively). It would alleviate the pigeon-holing of builds.
And for emperor’s sake Fatshark rework Ogryn in general to make them the best at something rather than the “technically it’s possible” class for the regular mission board and havoc.
The problem is getting past the low to mid 20’s to even be able to play with half decent teammates. Also I think alot of people have made it to 30 but lost so much they get knocked all the way down to low 20’s because the randomness of teammates is a nightmare. Also if you have people not playing with survivalist or gold toughness or the right auras in general it makes the runs infinitely harder. Im at like havoc 22 about to play 23 and the maps clandestum
Gloriana and im already dreading trying to beat the map with randoms considering most of the time you play that map you dont even make it to the middle event. Also if you do make it to the middle event it either goes okay or falls apart quickly so im not looking forward to it. Atleast we dont have the stupid blight modifier this time.
this is only true if you play with pubbers that don’t know how to work with a team, but that’s like 98 percent of players anyways so fair i guess.
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It’s doable without meta builds. I agree with the sentiment, though. The “build variety” is nigh nonexistent because of how much worse the non meta things are, comparitively. Fatshark has backed themselves into a corner with their lack of balancing.
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Havoc was made for butt slides. Be sure to rebind it, that’s what the game moved towards forever ago but now its mandatory. Unless you have a claw with freakishly long and flexible fingers.
I love Havoc, but I dont play it. Only completed till 20 on the first week havent touched it since. I’m just glad to be able to appreciate things.
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Yesterday completed the insane (38 lvl metalfab).
It was not that hard… Mostly metodical killing all heresy in all rooms. Rolls back to a better positions and constant protect of a team (im psyker with bubble).
It was very good.
Also before that run i comleted 40 lvl archivum sicorax, and it was also very enjoyable game. We can do insane, but our zealot dive too deep and get downed by sniper near the end event.
“Veterans used VoC HOW MANY times per run???”
“Average Chorus uptime was HOW HIGH???”
Sort of, but I did do it with Oggy if it makes you feel any better. No metas. You can do it… It just sucks a lot more.
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