Fun to have enemies that are threats that ask for team and build specializations, proper positioning, and teamwork.
Rank up system, while initially annoying, makes sense to me. Difficulty gate to make people prove themselves instead of queueing into a high level match and being dead weight. I see the thought that went into it and I support it.
Would like to see all maps, no matter how seemingly heinous (silo cluster opening staircase vs Dying Light shooters lol), be available.
Overall, the mode is straight gas. It’s all I want to play. I’ve not even queued the new map or tried the new weapons. I just love the upped difficulty.
I agree it was fun because it actually created a co-op scenario, but it’s also railroaded and I see no reason to play it again. It was like a puzzle and the solution to the puzzle was team comp and picking the right abilities. Once you solved that problem (at like Havoc 28-32 it becomes downright necessary to solve it) you breeze through to 40 without any additional struggling.
In that sense it was a nice change of pace, but also objectively badly designed with no replay value. They said that they’d add more modifiers to it and I loathe that, because it’s going to be wasted effort. They can add whatever modifiers they want to it, you’ll be forced to do the exact same strategy of spamming defensive abilities anyway. It’ll play the same.
That said I’ll probably join parties into total pugs at Havoc ~25 from time to time just for variety since it does have 21st hordes which is fun, and at around that rank it doesn’t require a specific comp
i’d agree if all 4 classes would be “viable” in the eyes of pansies that get their panties in a twist if you dont play zealot or psyker.
why would i bother playing a class i dislike, knowing my ogryn carried matches for two years now, most of them bubble-bitches alt-f4’ed in order to cheese their A.S.S title.
now i had a good match today, given the chance and if it wasnt for my pickaxe, bubble and books wouldnt have gotten them crushers dead in time
Something’s always gonna be more optimal and a hypothetical change will always sound more appealing. It’s w/e. With me, run anything you want as long as you’re not maliciously throwing matches and are willing to learn.
Out of curiosity, have you beat a havoc 40 without gold toughness and/or bubbles? I don’t think it’s a matter of learning or throwing maliciously, it’s just that the high Havoc ranks are extremely unapproachable if you don’t railroad your comp into those builds.
Reginald mentioned he has beat it with 4 FotF zealots but to be honest that’s about the only non-gold toughness non-defensive ability spam concept I can see working on Havocs, high mobility and ranged immunity on the charge are to thank. It’s just a very restrictive gamemode otherwise and I don’t see that as good design worth applauding
My personal opinion is that all of this could have been added to Auric Maelstrom instead, with less railroading and without us having to interact with the party finder.
Havoc does not accomplish anything by itself that justifies its inclusion as a new game mode rather than merely being an extension of Auric Maelstrom.
I agree with everything you said in both of your replies.
I have, yes, although I primarily see gold & bubbles. I run a lot of bolt gun sharpshooter w/ duelling sword. I’d say the thing I’ve not played without yet is a zealot with corruption heal. That might be the strongest thing in Havoc atm.
I think with any challenge, there’s going to be a publicly accepted opinion on the optimal way to handle it. And it might even be right! But you can basically do whatever you want if you’re skilled enough.
I also think that barely anyone in this forum or on the Internet has any actual experience with being a game designer or knowing what a game developer’s intentions were. It’s pretty sketchy for random folks to make declarative calls like “the game design is bad”. They know how they feel, valid. They don’t know game design.
And if something feels unappoachable, folks should practice some obtainable goals and work up to it. Improve oneself and stop trying to exert control over the uncontrollable. And, with games, if you’re not having fun? Take a break or quit playing.
No one is expected to first try everything and your value as a human being isn’t tied to if you win or not. It’s a challenge for challenge’s sake. If you want to beat it and feel that satisfaction, get good. Be better next time.
I’m thankful Havoc has given me a new obstacle to overcome. I think they made it for folks like me and I really appreciate that. And they can also bet I’ll be excited for harder content when they release that too :3
The one that comes to mind is 2 zealots with dash, psyker with wall and purge/bb, me sharpshooting with bolt pistol. Either we ran up on and stabbed the shooters & gunners or played corners / pulled back to better ground. Most of my time was spent shooting yellow highlighted dudes and killing specials. Rezzed with Psyker peril blocking + wall + stun grenade or bleed grenade knockback.
You play into your toughness Regen conditions (Confirmed kill, dashing dodging, criting and peril), pull the shooters into melee by sliding at them, or position with cover to recover when you can’t, it’s doable. Not free but doable.
I wanna get some ogryn games in soon so I can feel out that experience. Played everyone in havoc so far but him.
Seems to me like you were utilizing the same psyker defensive ult dynamic more or less, just with a slightly different flavor. Zealot with beacon also hard locked in. Survivalist enabling flamers too I assume. I’m not seeing how this isn’t just also checking the same boxes.
As I said the only run I’ve seen that deviates from this is Reginalds and they got a warren map with no shooters on it for the open areas which is also kind of wild.
For 7 years I used to be a restaurant cook/sous chef (I switched careers 2020), but does that mean that guests/customers are not in their right to complain if they are not happy with the food I serve them just because I went to culinary school and they have not?
If you paint me a painting and say you want me to pay fifty euros for it, but it is a really ugly painting, does that mean I cannot be upset about the price you are asking for due to the fact that I am not an artist and you are?’
Just because I work as a tattoo artist and you don’t, does that mean you can not be upset if I ruin your reference material by applying a terrible tattoo with blown-out lines and overworking your skin?
Do you see the weakness of your argument?
I applied a bit of hyperbole absolutely, but telling someoen that they can’t complain because they didnt’ go to school is stupid.
Glad you’re digging it! I haven’t had much time to devote to it yet because I’m leveling up an alt-account so I can test Havoc more efficiently. But the lower ranks I’ve played so far have a great feel to them, and it’s been highly entertaining watching some folks push into the higher ranks (and get repeatedly stomped on!). I haven’t reached rank 40 yet so I’m not allowed to have an opinion, but I’m looking forward to it and to new conditions. The whole feel with finding a good team and retaining them is a nice change of pace as well
I’m not sure what you want. Yeah there’s a strong meta core and folks often play it because that’s an easy way of communication. Classes have similar strengths regardless of specialization.
My point is you don’t need gold shields or bubbles. I’m sure folks will do a 4 ogryn run soon if they haven’t already. Folks have already duo’d havoc 40.
A lot of people talking about this stuff haven’t even played it, they’re just parroting what someone else said.
Havoc is what the forum has decided to be displeased with at this moment. Let people get better at it and check back in later. Basically everyone I’ve talked to loves this mode. It’s all dependent on who you’re listening to.
You literally ran with bubble though. Just becausei t’s the wall version doesn’t make it counter shooters any less lol.
My point is exactly that:
It’s unfun and sucks variety out of it. I appreciated that it was different from auric quickplay, but I don’t appreciate that it’s obviously balanced around the meta core in the game. It’s too restrictive, and in a game where the main complaint is lack of build variety for aurics, a gamemode where the tuning is not even 10% as tight, that’s horrible design. I’m already bored of tryhards abusing the same couple abilities and things every match, I’m not too happy that we now have a gamemode where it’s borderline enforced to do that.
I don’t appreciate your implication that I’m just talking out of my ass after you’ve already admitted your “non meta run” involved a psyker with shooter blockage and presumably three meta auras. It’s more like you’re trying hard to pretend that Havoc isn’t restrictive when you yourself know it is. No doubt people will eventually solo or 4 ogryn beat it after they bash their head against the wall and figure out a map/spawn pattern it works on, but that doesn’t change at all that it’s extremely prohibitive in terms of variety.
I’m glad you have fun, I did have fun too, but it doesn’t change that the gamemode is badly designed and sorely lacks replayability due to these problems. Trying to gloss over and dismiss these problems via toxic positivity does nobody any good.
Folks sticking around was my experience too, which is very different from the normal flow of games. It’s not something I was seeking out, but I’m really enjoying it. There’s a lot less anxiety about people faffing around between missions, and everyone seems game to push forward. I suspect that feel will remain (or be stronger) as everyone pushes to the cap.
Playing from 1-30 on a fresh account again has reminded me of another mode/feel I wish we had: high difficulty but low intensity missions that are more slow-paced and allow for more chatter. It’s great hearing the operative chatter on lower difficulties, and I really miss it in the rush of Auric/Havoc. Not sure how’d they deliver that, but friendly fire could be a core component!
