People deserve vacations, of course, but consumers also deserve to not have been sold an unfinished, Early Access product marketed as fully loaded/polished, to be fair. I estimate over 100hrs of my playtime was totally flushed down the toilet due to game issues/bugs. That’s pretty unacceptable considering you gotta multiply that kinda wastage by ever player (not the total but the fact a non-negligible amount of time is wasted manhours) and it’s kinda a big deal.
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I do not have anywhere near the same experience as you, nor do I think that FS owes me digital goodies for bugs in their game. They’ve apologized for various things and continue to work to deliver on their promises, and that’s good enough for me.
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Providing the fully-functional game, as it was advertised on release, isn’t a digital goody. Conversely, consumers don’t owe FS more money and being treated like, “enjoy what you got, not what we told you you’d get” doesn’t compel me to open my pocketbook for them. It’d be prudent for them to not take that same mentality. Just because some people are happy to fork over cash and grin & bear it doesn’t mean we all are. I’m happy with the steps they’ve taken so far but it doesn’t change the fact the quality control experience has been worse than that of most Early Access titles.
Similarly, I agree that “moar mods” doesn’t particularly endear me, though I’m not against it. It’s frustrating when certain things, like Bestiary, which should have been an official component of the core game exactly like it is in VT1, get tacked on as mods though.
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@Badwin I have given up attempting to try and figure out where the dev’s will feel like posting next, so I can confess I have no idea what their plans are. Some kind of monumental bug fix is my only dying hope.
I also think they probably need a holiday as I suspect they’ve been working inhuman hours to try and fix the horrific launch state.
While I understand that mods can be fixed, and I’m not having a pop at you as a person - the fact that the functionality of a game I have paid for is being compromised further by something I don’t want in favour of fixing the base game is just another in a long list of things that makes me reach for a double measure of Scotch.
Progress has been made, don’t get me wrong. The cleave/stagger debacle upon launch is fixed, and some of the more glaring bugs are fixed. Okri’s challenges and the events are a welcome addition.I can’t tell you if unchained passive stacks properly, or whether firebombs actually work as a client, or whether the damage numbers we see in the keep are completely accurate and I have no idea whether the patrols are actually going to be fixed. No one has even mentioned the silly state the balance of weapons is in, so that’s something else that hasn’t even been mentioned because the game is so buggy and discussion of balance has been kicked into a hedge. The one or two threads that have discussed balance (Beam staff shudder, huntsman ult cringe) died in a fire of toxic anger damn fast.
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Promises? You mean features the game was openly and shamelessly advertised with despite not being a feature in the game?
Edit: Immediately it gets branded hate, because it points to bad behavior that shouldn’t be rewarded.
If it was a promise, it’d be something completely different. But it was advertisement, dishonest about certain features, some still are not in the game.
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this is quickly getting off topic and becoming a hate on FatShark circle jerk
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@Argonaut14, according to a recent post by Robin (sorry don’t have a link handy), there is indeed a mountain of bug fixes waiting to be reviewed/implemented, including a major rewrite of patrols to fix issues there. Fixes are coming.
I appreciate your concerns about the state of the game and the potential issues mods present, but I don’t share them personally. The way I see it is FS promised mods, they have now delivered beyond any doubt/argument, it’s not 100% bulletproof (as no thing made by humans ever is), so some portion of the community is upset. I think this is indicative of the fact that you can’t please everyone all the time. But, again personally, I think it’s a major step forward in terms of both delivering on promises and improving the potential of the game. Some mods will unfortunately have rare, edge case bugs and still get sanctioned. It’s simply the reality of the situation…getting a wider audience means getting more input means finding new issues. It’s up to the ongoing collaborative efforts of modders and FS to “protect” users from these issues, and the pulling of Bestiary today proves to me that he system works well enough.
FS is dedicated to making the game better in every regard - it’d be suicide for them not to - and I think they are making constant progress towards that.
@Avar, literally everyone who has spent 2 minutes on these forums knows your grievances, the personal cost you claim, and the proposals for righting them in your eyes. You really really don’t need to share them here again, but you do you, bro.
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What. Do. You. Want?
There are people who want mods, I understand that - but there are people like me who just wanted to play without mods and the base game intact in the official realm. That requirement by some customers is ignored in favour of those who want mods.
I understand that maybe the greatest %age of the customer base wants mods but that now means EVERYONE will eventually play with someone who is modded. There is literally no choice left and the modded realm should be called the mod-testing ground as that’s all it will be used for - so as I’ve stated, I guess I’m playing in the modded realm now whether I like it or not.
The discussion is getting a bit vicious about Fatshark and until they address the communities grievances there will always be backlash.
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Common sense issues that affect everyone =/= “personal” cost and I honestly don’t care how they decide to do business, though I’d prefer they deliver like a company I’d choose to financially support rather than one that relies on inaccurate marketing. Hopefully, when people get back from leave, more things can be addressed and they have a solution for early adopters that isn’t, “sucks to be you.” I’m sure mods will be fine. As with all of the recent patches, it’s just a bit frustrating to see a plethora of basic issues remain unaddressed. Again, it’s their right to develop however they want but that doesn’t mean it’ll please their most hardcore players or customers, or bring in new ones.
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I am very happy with the starting of sanctioned mods. 0 crashes or hiccups so far, UI mods are great (Numeric UI and shared inventory for all careers), Source viewmodel is awesome.
Can’t wait to see more stuff sanctioned!
I have good faith in our prominent mod makers (Lupo, Grasmann, Aussiemon, Grimalackt, Bibi, propjoe, etc) and FS side (Robin) - they know what they’re doing.
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I feel like it’s a matter of perspective on mods. What is really the difference between Fatshark updating the game to include the functions provided by these mods, and sanctioning the mods so that people can use them on the official realm? For instance, if they released a patch that included waypoints, you’re required to download it and use it on the official realm. If they sanction the mod instead, you are allowed (but not required) to download and use waypoints. If waypoints were Fatshark official, would you still have an issue with it?
If you’re worried that you’ll need to get the waypoint mod yourself because the playerbase demands that you run it, I can understand your trepidation (insofar as it’s an inconvenience to be required to manage mods just to play the game with people). If your issue is just that content created by players is making it into the official realm, then I don’t really understand. Fatshark gave it their stamp of approval by sanctioning it, saying it fits into their vision of the official realm.
If you’re worried mods that you don’t download will interfere with your experience, maybe this puts your mind at ease?
Sanctioned Mods
The exact criteria will likely evolve over time as we explore this new space, but there are a couple of core values that will guide our way:
Mods are opt-in, so an unmodded user joining a random game should never be exposed to Mods that affect their experience unless they have chosen to.
Mods should not give a significant gameplay advantage over unmodded users or allow them to do something an unmodded user cannot. We don’t want cheats or mods that cheapen the challenge of the game. If you have an awesome portrait frame earned by finishing a difficult challenge, you should be able to trust that people you meet will know you got it legit.
However, if you just plain don’t trust Fatshark…
Then I’m not sure what anyone can tell you. If you think their judgment is so poor that they’ll sanction mods giving huge advantages to people and disrupting player experiences, then I think you’ve lost faith in them at a very fundamental level that has nothing to do with mods. Yes, issues happened with releasing sanctioned mods. Yes, they knew there could be unforeseen issues when they were released:
We’ve started out with the low hanging fruit, those unobjectionable enough to test that the system is working as intended and to test the waters as this is a completely new thing to us.
Robin
changes made in the workshop itself have no staging area what so ever and they were the ones that went wrong this time. It should really only be a problem this first time though.
And as far as I can tell, they’ve promptly took action to remove and/or fix the mods that caused issues.
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Oh you’re right I’ve completely lost faith ih Fatshark at a fundamental level long before mods were on the horizon, but mods are another massive can of worms and I have paid for the game and would like to play it.
I know I’m in a small minority, but there is now no “standard game” where I know I’m playing on a level field with everyone in the team. Someone with the “Sticky Grim” mod has got it every so slightly easier than someone without - a tiny amount easier admittedly. Someone with the “see if your gun is reloaded” who is playing as huntsman has got it a bit easier than someone without. It could be the difference between getting downed or killing a special depending upon the situation if you whip your gun out and it’s not loaded. This knowledge at a glance is an advantage over someone without the mod. This is only 2 mods and gives a small very situational advantage.
Add up lots and lots of tiny improvements and although one individual mod may not give a huge advantage, 50 little mods that give a tiny advantage might give a modded player a leg up, and “cheapen the challenge”.
If it is released as a patch and everyone has to use something or gets the benefit of something - so be it. At the moment people are installing mods, and others aren’t and it’s not a level playing field in the official realm anymore. This is of course assuming no mod breaks everything, or crashes, or slips through the net with malicious code etc.
If you’re concerned about not having the advantages provided by the sanctioned mods, then just download and use them.
If you’ve lost faith in FS, no one can help you but you. FS will continue working to expand and improve the game, but I think anyone who believes they are incompetent, uncaring, exploitative, or downright evil won’t have their minds changed by any amount of fixes (and I wouldn’t bet that anyone is getting free DLC, sorry).
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So my initial concerns are correct? I should just be quiet and go and download the mods whether I like it or not to be competitive in the official realm?
I don’t think FS are downright evil, but I do think their decision making is utterly baffling sometimes, and because of lack of communication they appear uncaring and incompetent.
I think my options are clear now. Mods are here to stay. If I don’t like it I should either; Download the mods or not play online (play bots), as there’s nowhere to play that isn’t modded.
Getting worried about very subtle advantages of mods sanctioned by the developer, when the game is coop PvE and the career&weapon balance is a complete mess… do you also play only 20% of careers and weapons that are best choices right now?
This competetive mentality in a game like this is just so alien to me, that i even suspect there’s trolling here.
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Maybe I used the wrong word when I said competitive, I meant contributory really. Anyhow I get the message.
[ninja’d @Badwin]
This isn’t a competitive game…who are competing with?
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I think the waypoint mod is fine for recruit/veteran it just seems antipodal to the hardcore PVE direction FS had taken with the series. I wouldn’t like the current implementation if it was official, either. Just a matter of taste. I’d much rather see something along the lines of, say, adding some (1-2) loot dice at the cost of not being able to tag enemies/items, encouraging better teamplay and communication.
Hopefully more variety comes with time. The current sanctioning just does blow my skirt up, with the most exciting features being thinks I absolutely thought I was paying for, being that they were part of VT1 (bestiary).
No need to exaggerate. Everyone can contribute and thrive just fine without any mods. If you’re concerned that other players having a perceived slight advantage means you will no longer play with them, then I think you’re punishing yourself.
If you want to play without mods, you can play without mods. No one is forcing you to download mods. You may worry that, at some point, the playerbase may want everyone to use certain mods… but that is definitely not where we are at.
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