Map replayability - Grim / To late versions

This is basically a very old idea ( But in the wake of another very old idea (weather effects) being realized recently, I think it makes sense to give it another push.

The idea is to basically increase replayability by introducing some kind of grim or “to late” versions for (some) maps. The concept is similar to the “branching” we see at the beginning of Fort Brachsenbrücke or near the end of “Into the Nest”. Two possible scenarios where at the beginning it will be decided which one is chosen. It would be interesting to see what happens on certain levels if you are to late or the situation would be even more “grim”. Random examples for this could be:

  • Halescourge: You arrive only after the city-wide spell has been activated. According to one of the intros the Chaos faction would be stronger (Skaven too?) while you would get some constant damage or debuff, maybe even a timer in which you have to reach the end of the map.
  • Screaming Bell: Before going up the stairs at the plaza with the statue of … Karl Franz? you will hear the Bell being used. As a result buildings nearby will crumble and block the stairs leading to the bell. This will trigger as soon as the first person reaches the plaza. As soon as the last person gets there the stairs behind will crumble too, making the plaza into an arena. From above a Rat Ogre and a Storm Fiend jump in and start to fight you, strengthened by the bells sound.
  • Into the Nest: Skarrik gets information of the heroes arriving into the nest and plans an ambush near the Rat Ogre Dens resulting in a two Ogres + Skarrik fight in a tight space (and instead of summoning hordes just another den will open every two minutes :P)
  • Convocation of Decay: It would be cool to see what happens after the spell has been completed. But I have somehow the feeling that the heroes would have no chance of beating a Chaos Demon so …
  • Hunger in the Dark: As the mine is being used you will permanently being followed by a troll. If you kill it, a new one will spawn. There are no barriers but if you are to far away a new one will spawn. Alternatively, let the cart crash somewhere near the end and forcing the heroes to take a new way to solve the problem (like flooding the mine?)
  • Blightreaper: The Chaos Hordes found Krausmann, the key and forced their way into the Sanctum. You have now to face an empowered Chaos Warrior carrying the Blightreaper.

I guess it would be difficult to find something for each map. Or you would have to make similar scenarios like ambushes near the final area everywhere. But at least for some maps it should be possible. It would add some replayability and is less work than creating a completely new map as you can reuse large parts of the maps. It should be random if you get the normal version or the grim version if you go by quick play (like chances are 3:1). Maybe you should be able to specifically chose the grim version from the map selection screen. As they are harder maybe a slight increase for the chest screen. But I don’t think it is necessary.


  • Fort Brachsenbrücke: How could I forget this. The finale in a certain way is a disappointment (since they removed the Monks again, even more). For most of the maps we can say that due to Lohner’s planning our heroes either arrive after most of the action has happened and the enemy main forces have already moved on (Empire in Flames, Against the Grains, etc …) or while the enemy is being distracted (War Camp, Halescourge, etc…). There is only one map where we are going against an actual dedicated main force and it feels like it and that is “Fortunes of War”. Point is Fort Brachsenbrücke “should” be like this, this is an ACTUAL SIEGE! So a version where the Fort is already overrun, the front part has crumbled under the catapults and a Chaos Spawn and a Bile Troll have broken through the last defense line.

Very cool ideas!

One thought i had is that i don’t think it would work to put it in the game all the time. Different paths that open up are things which i feel are the only thing that would work, so i’m not against them adding more maps with random paths.

Your ideas would be cool for an event (like screaming bell idea) or a weekly where you can push something at the beginning of the map and have it use one of your ideas.

One way to make convo very grim is when the sorcerers complete the spell it has a 50% chance of failing and restarting :slight_smile: ( jokes btw)

I like the ideas and narrative, but these additional scenarios would pretty quickly become familiar and predictable; so, would they really increase replayibility that much? For me, twitch mode increases replayibility far more than
semi-scripted events because twitch is more random and when a tough spawn occurs in the middle of a pre-existing tough situation (like 2 rat ogres spawning in the deathrattler arena) it’s really challenging and fun.


Why not? It would be a non-canon version. Technically, it would be somehow more realistic if one of Lohner’s plan wouldn’t work out. While as event would work too, I don’t think that the community is to bend on yet another part of content only accessible during certain times of the year.

But yea, there would be different ways to implement this other than by chance if you pick a map (event or special deeds would be other examples).

Obviously, yes they would. Under the assumption that every exsting map gets an alternative scenario it would increase replayability by a factor 2 (depending on implementation).

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Honestly I don’t like this idea. It would add too much RNG and I don’t think the game needs such difficulty spikes.

At most it could be something optional like a deed’s modifier, but it would still need a lot of work.

Yes they could be implemented in a variety of ways. i just think your ideas are a bit ‘too much’ to add to every map normally. paths are good because they give different routes, different terrain which add difficulty in itself, so i’m not against adding paths were you get different terrain etc.

So implementing your ideas with events, weeklies or some kind of mutator i feel like would be a better way, as having randomly 2 rat ogres jump down feels more as an event or mutator if you know what i mean, nothing against your ideas tho.