That actually shows another really good strat for the event. Have 1 or 2 stay up and the others go down and kite a big circle to pull aggro out of the little circle.
3 Likes
I mean, at first it was kill power or stagger. Now it’s mobility. So now it’s no low kill power, low stagger, low mobility, bad melee toolkit. Those are all of your requirements in a true solo to prove to you that an average 4 man group should be able to do this event.
2 Likes
…Except damage, mobility and stagger arent mutually exclusive traits. WHC might have more damage than that handmaiden build but he has less stagger. And i did note “melee capable”.
Plus with charmed life his build had equal or slight better dodge range on WHC than handmaiden does.
That handmaiden build meanwhile trades damage for more overall mobility and stagger. Additionally… the chaos warrior wave had no disablers coming in behind it which greatly mitigated the threat.
If you look at Incans twitch link you see a point where an assassin misses a jump and lands like half a foot away, if this stuff isnt considered lucky then i really dont know what is ._.
…Average QP team would have had the elf die, you´d been caught by at least 1 of the assassins, likely the one who landed next to you in a failed jump that you werent intentionally watching for, and the other two who jumped down wouldnt have made it back up due to swarming enemies x)
this is probably a bit much to ask for pubs. you’re lucky if you can get people in QP to vaguely fight near each other most of the time, let alone a proper kiting route without any comms. it’s doable, but it’s way more coordination than you’re going to get from randos in QP the vast majority of the time.
Let alone if the person in the middle gets disabled and then someone decides to try to help them, or takes a risky shot while kiting and gets maulered.
Spamming come here can only get you so far, trying this stuff in open lobbies basically always turns into a huge mess where you’re trying to solo and also trying to rez your team and hoping anyone you get up doesn’t decide to kite in the wrong direction.
I don’t think the event is even close to impossible to beat without a lot of stress, but it’s basically always just been a “does your team have the mechanical skill to beat this without dropping much” situation more than anything else in cata lobbies.
meh I’ve done it plenty of times while pubbing with varied quality in execution
most losses result from people getting split and picked off or overwhelmed on the platform (sometimes both) but I find if that’s happening it’s due to errors made rather than the event just being like, straight up unfair.
Only times I’d put it down to being unlucky is someone gets pounced or someone gets rekt while flashbanged
2 Likes
yeah I don’t think it’s luck either, but most pubs just aren’t gonna do any strat more complicated than “stand here and sometimes stand there”. even the ones that do, only really takes one mess up before it all goes to hell. the only luck part outside bs assassins is just the quality of the team you find, because you can’t rely on coordination to fix lack of mechanical skill in pubs, it just isn’t a thing past super super basic stuff.
I figure the flash bang is just a technical issue hiding the scene transition between in circle and outside, no idea how they’d fix that without changing how enemies target you in the air. That would help lair feel a bit less BS, but probably would make drop downs way too safe too.
whether the event should be nerfed much is another thing, and like I said I don’t think it should be outside changing the pacing a bit, but I don’t think relying on preset kite routes is a reasonable ask for QP, particularly when no other events really need that skill. that sort of point honestly supports nerfing it more than anything else, which I don’t think is the intent.
4 Likes
This was probably Fatshark’s biggest mistake.
No one complained about Convocation until some of the other events got nerfed really hard.
If none of the events were dumbed down to begin with then no one would even notice the difficulty difference for Convocation.
Convocation difficulty is not hard but appears hard because the other events were heavily nerfed. People are now mad because they can’t left click their way to win like the nerfed maps.
The end events should be the most difficult part of the map.
100% agree
3 Likes
Thats the crux, isnt it. Instead of dumbing down every event one by one until there is nothing eventful left, which is apparently what happens atm, getting the others on the same level is the way to go forward.
People will always complain about getting busted by something, be it the Mino, Specials, or end event spawns. When every event is about the same difficulty, there is no concentrated front against a single one (like there is now on Convo and before that on Brachsen), and you might even get some people to realize that the end event is not the problem, their one dimensional playstyle is.
2 Likes
Waystalker without Hagbane has no business being in a true solo. Swift bow will have no effect on armoured specials and the Longbow is inherently too slow for this without attack speed increases/invis/dash because it’s cc is terrible (Waystalker’s only attack speed increase talent only helps after the fact and for 5 seconds only). This would be like me taking WHC but no BoP. It’s basically asking me to take weapons that are just bad under pressure/without support. I’m going to pass on this sorry.
Would you like me to do it as HM until I don’t get lucky? Four players, even with low dps weapons, will out dps me. Letting the other three players drop and kite/ignoring them and staying up top yourself should work.
There’s still counter play without luck. Any Assassin can be pushed and HM has the mobility to keep moving, making it difficult for Assassins to grab HM. The Assassin at 1:40 The Assassin at 3:27 could’ve been pushed even if it instantly leaped at me as I landed down on the ground. Staying more aware of your surroundings than I do helps to. I don’t win my runs because of luck, at least not most of them. Some of those Clan Rats were staggered. Some of them had no reason to do a running attack because I was standing still. Some of them were overtaken by elites/higher tier chaff mobs. One of them was cut off by the specific geometry that was behind me when I took that shot aimed at that Blightstormer. This elevation can be seen affecting the subsequent immediate dash. I didn’t get particularly lucky with the special spawns. I was simply not in the event long enough to get bad spawns.
What you’re describing sounds like bad luck to me. It was more so that I didn’t get unlucky rather than lucky, with the exception of the first Assassin, which could’ve been pushed anyway. I’m not exactly sure what happened to cause the Assassin to leap in a straight line, but they don’t always curve their leaps. I think it already decided it’s landing spot on where I was just a few miliseconds ago as it leaped.
Not going to bother with the Merc one. Not sure why I thought it was a good idea or relevant. No one taking an extremely low mobility build outside of IB expects to clutch events in this game. I don’t even play low mobility builds in the first place, but maybe there’s some other players that could do it. Idk. But I do know I’d definitely fail it because I’m not good enough to do it as Merc with the 2h Hammer.
Thanks. I think it’s much more enjoyable for other people than being a braggart is. Still, I could do better.
It’s 5% more than HM with any dual wield weapon (5% less than DD though), so slight. Rapier’s movement curve is far worse than all of Kerillian’s dual wields. That’s on top of WHC not having the dash and the WHC one being on Deathwish after being fatigued from doing the map, and I did it on WHC first so it was naturally more difficult.
Why should it be with the current versions of the careers you’re referring to? Those careers perform poorly under pressure. Some probably never should perform well under pressure, but some should probably receive talent changes rather than the event being changed to suit them. Fervent Huntress is a good example.
Honestly at this point we’ll need someone to solo clear the event on Engineer
What exactly is the point of people spamming solos to prove a 4 man team of “average players” can do it? This is all very arbitrary
5 Likes
And even if you do it on all 15 careers it will be “luck.”
2 Likes
I’m going to be honest I’m confused by this thread at this point and what the overall points that were being made here by both sides. Not anyone’s fault in particular, it’s just quite a long thread. Got some interesting comments on YouTube that almost implied all of my wins were due to luck. May have misunderstood a bunch of things in my previous reply. Anyway I’d really like to make this less about me so I’ll keep the next part that involves me brief.
So me winning the map, even though I’m a good player according to some, should logically mean that four average players should be capable of doing Convo’s final so long as one of them has done it or seen it done before. That’s my opinion, and I don’t think it’s an unreasonable one, nor do I think one player in the team having seen or completed the final is an unfairly high demand.
I’d like the flashbang effect removed. I’ve noticed in a few of my attempts that sometimes the CWs seem to come in almost at the same time as the SV. Could that be a problem on my end? If it’s not, then a small tweak to the minimum time for the CWs spawning could go a long away. Obvious things like out of line of sight Blightstormers should of course be fixed. I wouldn’t want to see anything more than this done to the final though.
5 Likes
Hagbane is overpowered hence me asking for a pass, i dont really doubt you´d make it work but on the other hand, it´s like saying stormvermin/goat patrols can be solo´d easily on average because Unchained with fire flail can do it.
This is theory, not practice, something these forums seem very dead stuck on not figuring for some reason ._.
In practice, all it takes is one guy going down and the team falls over like a house of cards in majority of cases. And most cata players dont have the spatial awareness, ability to fight upfront or kiting speed to avoid taking damage there.
Having thought about it the biggest issue with the examples you showed are really simple, your own skill, and the builds, are far too optimal to represent majority of cata players. And even if some are skilled enough to pull it off they might not be on the right career with the right build.
As you noted, waystalker would be neck deep in crap without a paddle if separated from her team in that event without a hagbane.
Which the assassin can easily mitigate by jumping through other enemies or from outside your FOW, its still a thing with them hopping from the cliffs in that place.
I am saying the whole timing itself was lucky combined with how it landed near you rather than further off, and the third one was also silly lucky entirely.
- It spawned in the open right infront of you(abnormal since they normally spawn in/on/behind the cliffs)
- It was stuck and could not move during its spawning animation. (No idea if this is normal or not)
- It didnt actually start moving until you were already in melee range, a slightly different timing and it might just have teleported off.
In theory yes he could have been pushed, but that takes him poping in from a place where you can see him and not being busy with something else. Had he jumped at you its likely you´d been hit even with the stab attack in the air, absolutely certain if he was 0.3 seconds slower or so given you were animation locked at that point.
Incandescent linked a twitch video where he and a team of premades more or less split and do sheningans on twitch there and tells me its easy and silly safe…but then there is a part where he is alone and an assassin just flops a jump and lands just half a step away. Also with a unchained to hold down any and all melee problems.
Not lucky my foot ._.
…
But that said, i will concede that having sufficient skill does make the event soloable, depending on build, however i will stand by the thought that the design and difficulty is above what is normal or even reasonable for cata.
Even if a high skill player can solo it with a good build…such skill or ideal builds are not always present in CoD, just like the ability to burst the daylight out of nurgloths third phase isnt always around for Enchanters lair runs.
Having maps with such demanding elements just punishes QP and build diversity : (
Honestly Enchanter’s Lair is the only map I’d say is at all demanding on build/comp choice and even then it CAN be done without, the melee phase of Nurgloth is just very rough without a good set up.
4 Likes
You’re exactly right because:
No one cried over Convo in 2018 but that was the year Skittergate got nerfed.
No one cried over Convo when Legend got nerfed twice in 2018.
No one cried over Convo in 2019 but that was when Athel and Fort got nerfed.
No one cried over Convo until the game was horribly nerfed and dodge meta was taken away.
People know how to win Convocation.
They have just forgotten how.
While I agree that people are exagerating the difficulty of CoD, you are overlooking some stuff. The first one is that for the longest time an exploit existed to avoid engaging CoD in a serious manner which several Legend players loved to use.
The second one is that we got a patch somewhere last year which “randomized” terror events more. Up to that point the horde and elite waves in timing and composition have been identical over every single run. This isn’t longer anymore. I would also say that in comparison to other terror events CoD got more difficulty to before. Together with the removal of the exploit it left a vacuum with people simply being overburdened.
However, it is a good thing we have a map which asks for some coordination.
7 Likes
I’ve never seen this happen and I played a lot of solo legend QP convos…
Which is why I said:
Difficulty was never added to Convo, it just appears more difficult compared to all of the nerfed events. It still feels the exact same to me except now I have to solo it more as everyone dies after the 1st sorcerer …
I miss OG 2018 legend. It actually felt like V1 cataclysm. RIP
It happened a bunch.
I’m fairly sure it was, people used to just stand at the pillars and borderline afk because nothing would really spawn. Most of the terror events were stupid easy for a while until they got buffed. A bunch of them were tweaked in beta for a while, but it was super heavy handed and they undid some while leaving others fairly neutered compared to what they were like before (fort).
“Terror Events now scale with difficulty.”
Was in the 2.0 patch notes, so I assume it was then, with the tweaking down being in 2.0.15.
4 Likes
Yes in theory it can be done, and in practice, by highly skilled players, ideally with good builds.
That level of skill isnt what the average cata QP runner has got though.
A ranged career can get straight up detonated by Nurgloth landing a knockback into a mob attack and then crashing into the circle. And even if you can avoid being hit by mobs its still likely to end up sent crashing into the AOE and getting chunked by that alone.
…
The closest comparison i can come up with is one from monster hunter world.
A skilled player with an ideal build can down the last monster added in 10 minutes, an average player can do it in ~20. Someone who struggles? Oneshot by the first attack not dodged in 1 minute flat.
That 10 minute gap, represents an absolute gap in skills and/or a fair bit of cheese knowledge that a normal player will never have any real hope of grasping.
1 Like