I think it should behave like a dog attack.
the only problem with trappers imo is when they somehow traps you when you are hiding through pillars, objects, walls. (when the net shouldn’t get you)
in fact when it happens, it doesn’t even pull you to the trapper because of the weird hitbox.
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also perhaps it is the sound cue not being very distinctive.
packmasters had a constant sound cue (the bells) which was nice sound design.
this mod does something similar, adding the laughs to the trapper itself for every step the trapper does, making it more fair and distinctive between the other sound cues.
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Obligatory “back in my day”, I think packmasters were way harder to avoid than trappers.
Their sound cue might have been more obvious while they traveled, but boi you better have been ready and had a good host connection when they finally attacked. Felt like the timing was down to the nano second sometimes.
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yea even with assassins the timing was very fast and tight, therefore hard to even dodge them/push them. where hounds in Darktide are so lenient in comparison
They absolutely were, harder to kill in the middle of all the crap too.
Getting netted through obvious corners and stacked crates etc. is BS, but thankfully very rare. Near-Perfectly stacked conjoined twin, twin-tailed comet specials bugs the crap out of me more than anything, but the rest is not really an issue IMHO.
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And I prefer the former, since for me the satisfaction of overcoming a challenging enemy is undermined by the realization that it could have been just luck instead of skill and the rare cases of frustration when I’m unfairly put out of the play.
Is there something that would make your preference more valid than mine without boiling down to “skill issue git gud scrub”?
Of course there is - the fact that the game should not be balanced around the 0.1% of its players. Though given that people on these forums are exactly this 0.1%, I’m not surprised to see their opinions to be as overrepresented here as they are.
In general, you always should make the game fair first and then adjust accordingly if it’s too easy, not the other way around. If you do the opposite - that is, prioritize challenge at the expense of fairness - you end up with Havoc, Weaves and such. Given the spectacular failure of these modes, I’d have thought we would be past the debate on this approach. But just like with the “no nerfs in my PvE game”, we’re cursed to repeating it over and over and again since the hardcore playerbase is too full of itself to give any ground to the remaining 99.9% of players, vastly past the point of reasonability.
EDIT: Now that I think of it, what would you say about a solution where trappers’ LoS would be obscured by any non-horde enemy, and thus in order to launch the net would require it to position accordingly? As in, if you’re being targeted by a monstrosity or elites they would simply have to come a bit from the side instead of just firing straight through.
Packmasters were also classed as monstrosities, meaning that most +damage modifiers didn’t work with them and they had extra resistance to shotgun-type weapons.
A lot of things in the 'tide games are cylinders, like a lot of AoEs and ground hazards such as fire, and sound queues still have no verticality.
I hate to tell you this, but the people on these forums are very far from the 0.1%, it should be plain to see and even I can see that.
We have maybe 1-2 in the top 0.1%, a dozen more in the top 10%, and the rest is quite varied.
The main reason I engage in these forums is because it’s such a varied group, it’s interesting to get different opinions because of it, but it’s very clear even to me there are a great many frequent posters who are very , very far from the top 0.1% (incl me?!?).
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I hate to tell you this, but the 0.1% is a generalization that refers to opinions on these forums vastly overrepresenting those of hardcore players, which is an undisputable fact. You can compare the support for various ideas and views here to the steam forums and reddit and it becomes immediately apparrent that the community here is the most dedicated. Unfortunately, this dedication usually doesn’t come without egocentrism and tunnel vision.
If you meant to tell me that “well there are also casual players frequenting those forums so you’re wrong”, well yes. It is a generalization, just like saying that eg. university graduates are computer literate. I’m sure you could find some exceptions to prove this statement wrong, but it’s just splitting hair. Expecting people to never use generalizations and always add “well but not everyone” or whatnot is just unreasonable.
I can change the number in my previous reply to 5%, or whatever you like. Though if you want anything in double digits then I’ll need actual data-supported evidence for it.
I think a lot that other actually spheres too.
I’m no sound engine dev, but afaik verticality is tricky over a set of cans (fun fact: owls have their ears at slightly different heights). Default plain ol’ stereo sound that the vast majority of gamer use doesn’t do horizontal all that well either, let alone vertical.
if you frequented these forums over just the last year, post 
#13, you’d see a very varied set of takes. See anything “build” related for all you need to know on the matter, even for stuff pertaining to balance, that’s your data.
I’m certainly not Emprah’s gift to gaming or anything, but a lot of the stuff from many of the regulars passed off as “very good” for example, is actually “mid” or “average” in-game, nothing wrong with that, more than one way to skin a cat.
It’s mostly casual/mid/pretty-good in here with a few outliers here and there. If you think the upper echelon is over-represented here, and I don’t mean this as an insult, you might be looking at it from the wrong end. Even some of the seemingly “better players” are often wrong, nobody can be right all the time and things in the game change, and people forget stuff.
Maybe less to do with dedication and more to do with lack of background noise.
Steam seems to be a cesspool of stupidity, misinformation and the associated broken telephone though many of the guides seem good. While I’m a frequent Redditor, the DT sub there is mostly occupied by the bottom 60% from what I can tell, and it kinda was that day from launch, with the bottom 30% making the most noise being empty drums and such. If you wanna see a bunch of “clutch” vids that aren’t or continuously unused ults like VoC look no further than Reddit.
Reddit is more of a funny/meme sharing center but it is a pretty good way of disseminating info, tricks and PSAs. Discord for game discussions seems counter-intuitive to me, the format doesn’t lend itself to it.
P.S. @Murderer 's take is sadly correct in the context of the bit you quoted.
I agree with this holistically, especially for bombers. I feel like if they functioned like snipers (i.e have the have line of sight before initiating their attack, but it can be a pixel length sometimes) they would be absolutely fine.
But the amount of times a totally fine game has become ‘ohh now there’s 3-4 pox bomber clouds and all of them came from bombers literally in their spawns before they ran off and teleported half way across the map to safety’ is just, not it. I’d like to at least be able to clock them before the bomb hits the ground, not see it sailing literally over a divide in the map with a massive wall between me and them and make me go ‘wtf am I supposed to do about that?’.
I mean, I deal with it, but sometimes you literally just can’t, as they just fill the room with gas and their’s 10 bulwarks charging you with 10 ragers right behind them, and it’s like ‘I could deal with this, but not with 0 toughness and constantly corrupting health’. And you can’t even see them to deal with them, just, feels terrible.
Trappers I also hate, but I’ve long since given up hope on them turning into an interactive enemy, so I just mod and turn them specifically into a none issue so I can enjoy the game. (you have no idea how fun the game is when your deaths are actually your fault most of the time and not utter horse).
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If you can consistently perform in Auric Damnation with anything besides the most meta builds then you’re in the top percentile. If you’re in the top percentile and consider yourself ‘average’, your view is warped. And this is sadly a very common thing amongst this group since most people I know that frequent Auric Damnation never play anything below it. They’ve created an echo chamber for themselves where beating the hardest content in the game reliably (hardest before Havoc ofc since we’re splitting hairs) is average, and being unable to solo/carry Auric Damnation is bad.
That’s not just elitism, it’s beyond that already. It’s an ego cult, and a deranged one at that.
Now I’m not saying you’re in this group, it’s just that this is the kind of player I usually meet when playing Auric Damnation.
Also, since we’re already talking about it - please do tell me what your skill level is. I’d hate to be wrong in my assumptions but I’m curious if that was in fact the case.
Wait, so you’ll start by arguing with me and then just admit to my accusation? Just like that? I know that the elyte gamerz consider any views that contradict the general rule of ‘game bad or unfair means skill issue, git gud scrub’ to be invalid by default, but why would you just admit to being a part of this group when trying to refute my point about one of the tunnel-visioned extremes being overrepresented here?
Obviously, unless the ‘wrong end’ doesn’t mean the wrong side of a ‘casual vs hardcore’ spectrum, but that’s what you implied by saying that you don’t want it to be taken as an insult. If that’s the case then please elaborate. And if not then you’re exactly the kind of blinded, egocentric elitist that cannot even fathom ever considering the opinion of someone they consider to be lesser.
Nope, it is the dedication. You only come to the forums if you care enough about the game, otherwise you wouldn’t go out of your way to interact with this site when you can voice your opinions on Steam or Reddit, where you’re almost certain to have an account already and both of which are official communication channels.
There’s a lot to unpack here, but I’m gonna keep it brief as to not drag out a reply that is already far longer than I intended. You’re not entirely wrong, but the blatant contempt you show here doesn’t help you support your claim that your view isn’t warped by being a part of the top percentiles.
Not sure what you refer to. There’s more than one bit I quoted in my replies. I even added one in an edit.
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IDK, maybe currently you’re just too far on the one end so everyone else seems to be part of your “elite gamerz” crowd, it means maybe you’re too far below average (objectively speaking) so that your PoV is skewed. There’s nothing wrong with that, some people have more time, others plateau at different levels etc, but there’s no room to grow if the ceiling is so low you’re constantly loosing hair banging up against it.
Or maybe a few things are sticking in your craw so right now and it’s skewing your PoV, IDK.
There are unfair things in this game, sure, I also know that people blow a lot of it out of proportion to justify certain things, and I also know that Auric HiSTG and Maels are balances around 4 decent players, as in OK to pretty good, and 4 averagely good players stomp it. 2 good players and 2 whatevers are enough to not break a sweat, that’s very far from top 0.1%, or even 5%, or 10.
A lot of people wish for the ultimate diffs to be challenging for a good (not super duper) group of 4 coordinated and cooperative players, similar to VT2 vanilla Cata, DT is quite a bit off in this respect, not always due to game design but most of it. Too much of the time DT hardest can feel too much like Legend and not enough like Cata.
Eh again, a lot of the content on Reddit and especially Steam is below average, average is average and if you’re >= average you recognize this. And average here is not just DT centric, it’s game-centric. Button-mashing face-tanking videos chock-full of rookie (for any game) mistakes are below average, doesn’t taker a 1337 player to notice this. An average player who’s never played any *Tide game would spot these.
MB, this bit:
Or it’s the opposite. I asked you if my assumption was correct, you just went on a rant how I must be on the lower end and dodged the question. So not only was my assumption about you correct in that you do belong to this group, you’re too much of a coward to admit it.
Not surprsing given that if you did that you’d have to eat your own argument about being too far on one end of the spectrum.
What annoys me is that you immediately assume that I’m a casual player and proceed to do the exact thing I’m accusing the higher end of doing: attempting to invalidate the opinion of others with “git gud scrub skill issue”. You did that in a more polite manner, but given the context I think it’s reasonable to assume that it wasn’t because of actual politeness as much as an attempt to make this toxic attitude less apparrent. It feels like talking to a political cultist, where if you dare to criticize Democrats/Republicans it must be because you’re just a Republican/Democrat troll.
You know literally nothing about me aside from the fact that I’m critical towards the general attitude on those forums, yet this is enough for you to assume I must be a bad player. Ergo: you are not an objective party, my assumptions about you were right, your perspective is skewed and you don’t have the balls to admit you’re on the hardcore end of the spectrum.
The problem I have with your reply now is that it does prove that I was right in my two assumptions about you (regarding your skill level, and regarding your view of the community) but despite being openly asked about it by me, you avoided admitting that it is in fact the case. It feels like you realized I have a point regarding your view being skewed by being on one end of the spectrum, but realized that by admitting it you could no longer throw your thinly veiled elitist crap at me.
I’m gonna be blunt since it’s not going anywhere: you are on the hardcore end of the spectrum and at fault of doing the exact thing I’m accusing the hardcore community here of: reducing criticism to ‘skill issue’. Which I’m used to. The thing I consider despicable is your attempts to hide that you are, in fact, on the dedicated end of the community spectrum - which was your only way of passing your views as ‘objective’. You’re doing the exact thing I consider to be plagueing this community.
I won’t waste my time on talking with someone who is guilty of the exact toxic behavior I’m describing since it’s obvious such a person would either never admit it or, even worse, attempt to justify it no matter how despicable it was. After all, they would feel attacked in such a case so they cannot be expected to act in good faith.
I’d like to be proven wrong though, and accomplishing that is extraordinarily simple. Just provide arguments that neither boil down to, nor rely on ‘git gud scrub skill issue’. Assume I’m as skilled as you are, and proceed from there. When being accused of having a skewed point of view, throwing ‘no u’ and proceeding with ad hominem is a poor way of arguing for your objectivty.
Listen, I really don’t like to be mean. But you’re doing the exact toxic thing I consider to be so harmful towards this community and wanted to highlight, I can’t just ignore it.
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Keep their current throw range if they have line of sight to a player, still let them throw indirectly, but reduce the range of their throw when throwing indirectly. I believe that’s how the gas globe lobbers in VT2 worked and while people did still complain about the ability for them to throw indirectly it didn’t seem as constant as the DT bombers.
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he’s toxic on the forums and in-game too and a redditor
and he will block anyone if he gets defeated with logical facts
he’s also not even in the top 100%, don’t worry
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Trappers I do see the issue with, bombers not so much
Bombers lob the grenades, so LoS is not as much as an issue with them
Trappers getting a minor rework would most likely end up making them just pop up right in front of you, even in the mobbed horde, just to net pop you within LoS. In the case and scenario of being cornered by Bulwarks and Crushers, it would still make you disgruntled if you couldn’t dispatch the bugger as you get pummeled by the Chaos Ogryns and such
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