For this instance I want Fatshark to learn a thing or two from the 40K tabletop game, specifically, Line of Sight rules.
There has been so many instances in Maelstrom and in more recent times Havoc where I’ve been trapped THROUGH a massive horde of enemies.
How am I supposed to hear the trapper firing his net when I have six crushers and two of their dumb bulwark brothers breathing down my neck?
And more importantly, what kind of warp-spawned net is that trapper using that makes it move through 20 people?
Its also really annoying when you’re dealing with hordes and theres a couple of bombers somewhere on the map chucking all sorts heresy at you all from behind cover where you can’t reach them.
By all means, include the trappers and bombers, but please make it so that we can at least have a line of sight to them so we have a chance to do something about it.
Yeah they still shoot through terrain and doorways sometimes even if they are behind a wall and should t technically be able to see you it’s really kind of annoying. Also still don’t always get sounds for them either. Just yesterday there were like 3 dogs in a row who made no sound and I swear ragers don’t make sound anymore either or if they do it’s way too quiet for how lethal they are
Is there a good counterpoint to it though? Wouldn’t trappers just be totally trivialized if they couldn’t fire through enemies? How would you keep them dangerous?
I get the complaint, but I’m never seeing a proposed solution that doesn’t just make the special lame. Between making the special lame, and keeping the special slightly unfair at times but altogether dangerous, I prefer the latter. If there’s a better solution that would be sick but I can’t think of any.
As for the bombers, I really don’t get the complaint to begin with. The whole point of a bomber is to arc and bounce grenades at you from unexpected angles, as opposed to pretty much every other enemy which shoots at you straight. I don’t see why someone would need line of sight to throw a grenade over a wall or bounce it around a corner logically speaking either
You mean to say you only ever get hit by a net if it flies through an enemy? That there is no requirement of a teammate to save you that makes the trapper more dangerous than the other specials? Its getting a little ridiculous seeing the elitism on this forum that transcends common sense just to poo poo on other posters, like you have nothing else to say in most threads. I can guarantee you I don’t slack in the game, but I will point out things that are badly designed every minute they come up in discussion.
And if the crux of your argument is that they need to cheat to provide YOU challenge, well you already made my case for me. Did you cry about these changes made for less janky gameplay with the other 4 specialists (fire now affecting enemies, dogs and mutants pushing enemies, bullets doing FF?)
No, I said what I said. It’s a horde game and you’re almost constantly surrounded by enemies. You don’t see how making those same enemies act as cover would trivialize the trapper special that can’t hurt you directly? You’re removing a gigantic amount of potential net scenarios and leaving mostly the ones where the net is harmless and can be removed without risk anyway.
You can screech and whinge about elitism all you want, it’s a justified question. Hookrats clip through slots in VT2 for a reason, too. It’s the intended design of the special that it’s most dangerous when other enemies are on you and force you to prioritize carefully to react. Letting them not shoot through enemies would run entirely contrary to that design. If you think it’s bad design, then let’s hear the better alternative. I’m giving you the chance to prove you’re not just whinging and actually have something constructive to say.
I’m honestly tired of people 24/7 clamoring for depth to be stripped from the game. I get it, you just wanna relax after work and have a beer and sit in a chokepoint and funnel the entire horde and let absolutely nothing threaten you, no trapper punishing you for leaving yourself pinned, no bombers punishing you for holing up with no way out. Do it on sedition though, don’t ask for my game to get less interesting
Uh no the trapper is taller than like 80% of the cast so its not normally an issue. But if you have a spawn pushing you backwards with its multi hit, you can have a net fly totally through its back and trap you. If that is your definition of a skill issue then again I would love to see you stop posting if you don’t have anything to actually contribute. That isn’t depth. That is the not fun instant jank of the old design still present because surprise nobody touched trappers outside of a slight range nerf, reload time nerf and adjustment to the net free time from the beta.
If the net hits something with an ordinary cleave stop, it should stop because that target is totally obstructing your counterplay options. Whether this is ‘stripping depth’ to you is totally sideways to mine and OP’s point. So comment on that and save the self-felating of your ego to another thread. Lord knows we get enough of that.
I’m gonna just quote myself since you clearly didn’t read and just had a fit instead:
I acknowledge it’s unfair at times. I’m saying it’s a necessary evil or the special is a joke. Do you disagree? Present an alternate thesis instead of a tantrum.
No, they don’t, and you’re just strawmanning trying for a gotcha. You’d get rid of most of the actually dangerous trapper situations that require thinking and decisionmaking if you got rid of them shooting through enemies, though.
That was literally your first post, if you have any more edits feel free. That is literally what you opened with, if they don’t do that they are trivial. I guess you’ve never had one fall behind you, have your chainsword attach to their head and get netted anyway (one of their many bugs). Anyway I’m done with you.
I never said that a trapper would never net someone without netting through enemies so I don’t know why you’re clinging to this gotcha. I also never claimed they’re never unfair, I explicitly acknowledged they can be unfair due to this but I still think it’s a necessarily evil. Give it up buddy.
I’m saying it would strip depth from the game by getting rid of all those situations where a live, dangerous trapper is behind enemies and you have to now figure out how to deal with that, and thus make the special less dangerous and provide less gameplay depth to the game. The vast majority of cases where netters shoot through enemies it’s totally fair and adds to the game.
I honestly don’t know why you’re getting this heated over me saying that and having a stompy tantrum like a child, this is basically what I said in my first post and I was being perfectly polite
Let them shoot through enemies but allow crouching to generate a ‘dodge’ window that only works for the net. That way those scenarios were the trapper spawn is silent or you’re locked in with horde chaff you still have a way to respond if you’re paying attention and have good timing.
It’s only my experience but in most games I feel trappers are far more successful than any other special other than silent bursters jumping out of doors next to you of course. Maybe buff the other disablers to make up for adding a way to evade net shots.
The problem that on certain tiles they can camp outside of the map boundaries and throw a couple of grenades with pinpoint accuracy from somewhere you can’t even reach or see them. For example on the first objective rooms on Cryo rods and re-route trains missions.
Kind of like the mutant or dog, could have the shot from the net knock down enemies. The container that’s shot out cleaving and then exploding to release the net.
I think they should keep the current behaviour of netters but when your nettee you’re not attacked by enemies and instead your health lowers gradually just like a dog attack.
It’s the fact that being netted is literally instant death on T5 that makes it feel ludicrously unfair.
If the trap behaved the same as dogs then it would be less annoying .
I don’t mind trappers shooting from their current state, but I wouldn’t mind your ragdoll body keeping physics to either push enemies out of the way like a hound or muty (for Ogryns) or for not pulling you through 4 bulwarks and instead bouncing off their shield. At least it would give observant teammates some opportunity to retrieve you.
Thread ain’t what I thought it’d be but I still want to contribute.
Bombers are getting kind of crazy and I think something needs to be said about Tox bombers throwing from a basement into a narrow hallway two levels above them and 40m away. I understand zoning enemies need to zone, but something is off in this situation, as if their sphere of influnce is actually a cylinder giving them infinite vertical range.
As for trappers shooting through hordes, I think maybe that’s just a limitation of the game and/or slot system, because all ranged enemies will target players through npcs and obstacles. The targeting through obstacles is especially grating since gunners will key in to your position and then be shooting in your direction before you expose yourself.
Seriously, it’s fine. Learn to play. Maybe bombers are a little annoying throwing grenades from out of line of sight but it is in indirect fire weapon they’re using.
I have to admit it feels pretty horrible getting trapped by a net that effortlessly glides through a dense ocean of enemies to perfectly nail you if there truly is nowhere to dodge at that moment.
I have also seen nets shoot through hard cover and other nonsensical situations to score a hit.
Annoyingly agree, I cannot think of a fantastic instant solution to this either.
Limit the amount of bodies/obstacles the net can pass through before it retires? I don’t know.
This sounds actually pretty dope - I would feel pretty stealthy if I landed a net dodge in this way whilst being surrounded and fighting a pool of enemies. But wait, what about the ogryn haha. Our big boi never catches a break.
When it comes to the bombers, I personally do not have much of a problem with them.
Most of the time I just go “Holy Hel, that was a karkin’ good throw!” and laugh it off, seeing as grenades are weapons to be lobbed over cover, so naturally from that I haven’t had a critical viewpoint. That being said, I haven’t paid too much attention to the attack range of the bomber, so for all I know, the range could be annoyingly long(?).
Nevertheless, I wholeheartedly agree that the trapper mechanics are definitely something Fatshark should take a look at - maybe they can find a solution that makes it feel more fair when one gets trapped! Cheers!