Loot and Rewards - Combining Boxes

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
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Hello all,

I’m sitting with about 130 boxes ranging from Commendation to Generals Chests and I have no desire to open them. All they’ll do is accumulate parts and dust that frankly I haven’t needed for a good few months since everything is maxed on all characters. Sure there’s red weapons to collect but obviously they only drop from Emperors’ Chests and above.

Can you implement something along the lines of the first game where combining 5 blues gave an orange, but for the boxes? There’s coffers from Veteran Deeds in my inventory and they are totally obsolete. At least combining them up to Emperor level would give me a better chance at, say, a unique skin rather than filling my inventory with parts I don’t need. This would also mean that Deeds that aren’t Legendary would be worth doing for another reason other than the pretty portraits.

On the subject of Commendation Chests, I understand that these cannot be used in this proposed combining system; it is unfair for someone to farm experience on Recruit and end up with Emperors’ Vaults, for example. However combining them into, say, a cosmetic box where I’m guaranteed to get cosmetics for the chosen character would be pretty dope. I mean something like 25 chests for 3 guaranteed hats would be more than enough for me since I’ve NEVER gotten a cosmetic drop so far, after almost 550 hours across both your games. Not mad about that at all…

If you could improve the quality of the chest within its particular level (e.g. combining coffers will only yield Emperors Coffers at max) this would allow people that only play Champion to get better shots at the good stuff and/or give an incentive for people like me who play it to get quick completions for the headgear. I understand that playing Champion and getting Emperors’ Chests from Okri would basically eliminate the need for Legendary if this was implemented with the ability to fully upgrade boxes to Legendary Vaults, so that isn’t what I’m asking.

If you do try to implement this please don’t wreck the code in the process or pull an Okri and reset everyone to 0 progress. I don’t want to log in and find you’ve done what I’ve asked but all my boxes are gone. Other than that cheers for reading and here’s to the first DLC coming soon.

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Hmm… Perhaps if you opened more of your chests as you got them? While tedious it’s hardy unrewarding if done when you get them, and cosmetic gear can drop from your commendation chests regardless of your power level as I understand it.

It would seem strange to me to implement a chest combination system this late in the game, also the negative response from players who actively open their chests as they played would not be something Fatshark would want, people got upset enough at the last loot drop rate change. I think it would be more likely that they entirely rework the loot system, and I don’t think that’s going to happen either.

Your suggestion would also run the danger that speed running some levels might become “loot” preferable to actually completing them with grims and tomes.

I’m not sure your really thinking this request though…

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Had a lot of Reds in com - chests…

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I got reds mostly from com and hats only from com.

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People already speedrun for boxes. There’s innumerable videos of people solo’ing Against the Grain in Legendary, which gives the same if not better rewards as what I’m suggesting. Any character with invisibility and Slayers, off the top of my head, are easy to do this with as long as you don’t get a Bile Troll or a Storm Fiend, at which point you’d just restart. Not to mention the fact you can run levels with Slayer and open the boxes on anyone else which in my opinion is totally flawed anyway.

If you ask me, opening 25 Merchant Vaults would yield more Reds than opening one Emperor Vault. It would be up to the player what to do with their rewards, but I also stated this system be aimed towards lower difficulties. Since you can get Reds in any Legendary box it doesn’t matter which type you open, so the system I propose actually doesn’t affect Legendary in any way but because only Emperor Chests from Champion yield Reds it means any boxes received on that difficulty become valid again. Lets do some maths though, since you accused me of not “thinking it through”:

We’ll say it takes 10 boxes of one tier to get one of the next tier up and that’s being pretty generous. If you grab no books and have no Quick Play bonus you have Ranalds blessing and the regular level completion bonus. So you’re looking at anywhere between Peasant and Merchant if you’re lucky. So we’ll say if you run 100 games, you get 60 Peasant, 30 commoner and 10 Merchant. We’ll convert the 60 Peasant to Commoner. Now we have 36 Commoner. Let’s convert the Commoner to Merchants. We now have 13 Merchants and 6 Commoner.
The idea is obviously to get to Emperor for better chances at better stuff. So we convert our Merchants to Soldier and we end up with a grand total of 1 Soldier, 3 Merchants and 6 Commoners boxes out of 100 games. If you decide to do what you suggested and run through without grabbing books if this was implemented, you’re quite frankly doing it wrong, as 50 games with all books would yield better chests on average. If people wanted to do that, let them; more time playing, looks better when Fatshark need to show Games Workshop the quarterly figures for playtime.

As a side note, what you described was literally how people gathered Orange weapons in the first game; solo’ing maps with bots to get Blues and Greens and combining them. Devs implemented it before and didn’t mind people abusing the system and my proposed system as we’ve seen with easy numbers yields worse rewards than the old one as they only required 5 items to get the next tier up.

While we’re at it, “This late in the game” is a pretty ridiculous thing to say. This game has been out for give or take 5 months. As game lifespans go, this is barely past the babysteps phase, not to mention the previous title had a lifespan of 3 years before this sequel was released. There’s plenty of time to implement massive changes and in the current climate of releasing games half-finished then fixing it with updates and DLC, it’s pretty much the norm to make big changes to keep people interested. Tekken 7 is undergoing a Season 2 revamp over a year into its’ console lifecycle for example. So that point really isn’t valid. If they want to do something, they can do it. As long as they don’t wreck the code.

There are going to be ways to abuse any system in any game; if you actually read past what you quoted you’d see that I’d rather this was implemented to give incentive for boxes gained on the lower difficulties and more reward for Deeds other than a contribution to unlock a portrait. I also stated Commendation boxes not be included for obvious reasons and suggested a new cosmetic-only box to possibly heighten the rewards from those as well, or leave them as is. This system would mean that when, for example, I’m running Champion to get completions for the headgear and I get a Generals’ Chest, I actually care about it because I can put it towards an Emperor which will may get me a Red, which lets face it is the only real reason anyone wants loot boxes in the first place.

I stopped opening boxes when all I got was, for lack of a better word, trash. What’s the point in opening them when everything I have reads 999*? I have every char at 30 with Kruber as my favourite being 30+112. That’s 262 Commendation Chests I’ve received from levels alone, not counting any gained from Okri since I can’t, on the fly, remember which ones I’ve completed. Not one Red or Cosmetic after I’ve opened at least 182 of them. For those saying they’ve received Reds in them, please kindly show me proof that they are better for Reds than an Emperor Chest if you insist on that being your sole argument for not implementing this system. Not to mention the fact that I already mentioned they not be included or have different rules.

Cheers if you read my wall of text. Sorry about that but this is something I feel quite strongly about as I’m quickly losing reasons to continue playing the game.

EDIT: So as an experiment I opened all the boxes I had, which included 80 commendation chests and the rest ranged between General Coffers and General Chests (Veteran and Champion boxes). I received 3 headgears (yay!) and literally nothing else of worth. From 130 boxes. Obviously the Commendation Chests gave me the cosmetics which means that, again, I’d rather they had a different system to the regular level completion boxes. Still, three drops out of a total of more than 262 boxes opened over my total playtime is a bit of a rip. I personally would rather have opened 10 boxes that had chances to have Reds in them or guaranteed cosmetics than sat for around 20 minutes opening 50ish boxes I got nothing useful from and 80 boxes I got three useful things from. This is one instance I know, but I can’t imagine I’m the only person who feels this way about boxes I’ve earned feeling totally pointless.

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Quick math for you mate…

10 x 2% on red from general chests/vaults whatever

Or

1 x 3% from an emp…

What is better ?

If you really just want your loot , go champion fullbook or legend without anything… tomes maybe… the relationship “finish - chests - droprate - time to finish” probably the best there…

Trust us or don’t… nobody will sit in front of the PC and will make a Video for you…
With all comm. Chests , which i’ve opened after the loot-update, i got 6-8 Reds and 6 cosmetics…

The only real reason to play videogames should be fun. If you play 30min to finish a run and get a red in 1 from 20 chests. You probably have played 10h for maybe 5s “Yeah a red”…
This game is about the gameplay, not about loot , big grind or a competitive scenary.

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Firstly, I’m definitely not your mate. Secondly, did you read the part where I said it wouldn’t affect Legendary or were you too busy attempting to look intelligent by throwing irrelevant figures about?

10x0 Generals Chest

or

1x whatever % it is to get a Red in Emperors Chest. What is better?

I know what I’d rather. CHESTS are Champion; only Emperors contain a chance for Reds. VAULTS are Legendary and all contain a chance for Reds. So combining Legendary Vaults yes, would be quite silly. Combining Champion Chests or below? Totally useful in my opinion.

As for showing proof you’ve just read the bit you wanted to read again and not where it says “show me proof they’re better than Emperors’ Chests for Reds” and also ignored that I’ve stated multiple times that Commendation Chests should have a different system if they were to be included in the combination system. Just because my luck is bad doesn’t mean everyone elses is so they could stay as they are or have a different system for guaranteed cosmetics. For the third time. Also check my edit to see what happened when I opened 80 of them in a row. But lets keep it simple. On Champion, with all books you’ll get a crack at roughly three Emperor Chests per level up, so possibly 3 Emperors to every 1 Commendation. Just because you got a Red in Commendations and I didn’t doesn’t mean Reds aren’t in them, but it also doesn’t mean that they’re better than Emperors either. But all of that is besides the point.

Where’s the fun in playing the same 13 maps for no reward on any other difficulty but Legend? I don’t have a team so Quick Play is pretty much a random bag of good and poor players. Sometimes I don’t have the energy to play with poor players or as mentioned previously it’s quicker to do Champion than Legendary for completing the 100 games milestones. Where’s my incentive to play any other difficulty other than those two reasons? And to be perfectly honest playing Champion for fun and getting anything other than an Emperors feels like a total waste of time.

When was the last time someone said Vermintide 2 is so relaxing, it’s such a good chill out game? Not never. If you knew how loot based games work you’d realise that for pretty much everyone the game is about the loot at its core. It’s literally a psychological formula that has been proven countless times in games such as Diablo, Sacred, WoW, Guild Wars, the list goes on. Why do you play harder difficulties? Better Loot. Why do you get better at the game? To beat the harder difficulties. Granted there are daily quests again but still, why would I play anything other than Legend or care about Deeds for any other reason than the portrait, which I personally don’t care about? How about players who aren’t good enough for Legendary, or simply don’t want to play it because they don’t like losing, don’t like the stress of it or don’t have a team and don’t like randoms? There’s any number of reasons why they should make anything other than Emperor Chests useful to people who are maxed out. Think outside the box.

And finally, I’m sorry, this game isn’t about the “grind” but three months later devs implement quests and reset everyone’s progress to 0 for games completed then tell me I need 100 per subclass for a unique helmet? Or say you need what, 1000 deeds completed and also reset progress to 0? Not to mention the fact that people play the same levels over and over and over again to get boxes. Sounds pretty grindy to me. This game isn’t anywhere near competitive, I agree. But trying to tell me this game is just about gameplay is pretty laughable. This is Left 4 Dead in the Warhammer Fantasy universe with bows, arrows and loot boxes. Trying to say it’s anything different is just plain lying to yourself. I’m not saying it’s not fun, but it gets pretty stale when you’re at the endgame and nothing but Legendary boxes make you play anymore.

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Dude?

So Yeah… If it’s only about the loot, then go and play legend only. This even saves a lot of Time grinding 10 chests for 1 higher tier.

So why would you have some of those, if you want reds… just look above…

You remember this?

That’s not true and that’s obviously all what we wanted to say with " reds and cosmetics drop in comm. Chests too. "
So what proof do you want? Everything can drop in comm chests , so even a recruit could be a lucky one. Even you could gain more reds from them and not through legend vaults. It’s RNG…

So what if you got “your reward”? Do you quit?
Games are about fun… lootgrind or competitive are just low budget / no idea gamedesigns. Just look at the 1000 mobas, battlegrounds, ea-shooter, fifa, koreagrinder… someone wants to make money with strong graphics and a simple game design over and over again.
The best games are endless/timeless… just because a mindfecked story, which you can play over and over again (heavy rain… A world were you can find “yourself” and grow with Inspiration, creation and you be, whoever you want to be.(Minecraft, Starwars Galaxies, Yeah maybe even no mans sky)
Or just the timeless nintendo classics, with a perfect mix of gameplay and nostalgic.

V2 got the skillbased gameplay with strong challenges. Even a Diablo can’t reach it… just hope for big loot and farm your paragon there.

The reward here is still fun! If a game dont reward fun , you shouldn’t play it.

So it’s up to yourself to find a team or add some good randoms? You could be a “poor” random to me or anyone else here too…

If i would “think like that”… I would go to work 16h per day and buy a Pizza after that. That’s probably a better feeling, than playing and raging , because of an “ingame-chest”.

V1 was more pain with 1 item + tons of dice…

V2 already got “casualized” with its current system, but it’s still probably a game for a low playerbase. My friendlist explodes with ppl who play for fun and are just glad about it. “Im glad to find ppl to play with” is the sentence, i read the most times the last weeks in steam / V2. Noone of them stays in the keep like “Mimimi crap again.”.
I dont even get, why you care about loot and farm , but not about frames.

Comm.-chests are useful… + The game is designed to make you stronger through your own experience. So actually everyone can get all in the game through playing. Legend only players just get things probably faster and reds arent even really necessary. It’s just a special glow effect…

Recruit = get in the game
Veteran = get items , experience and lvl up
Champion = same like vet for experienced ppl
Legend + deeds = endgame

The only thing that beats the endgame is new content. Every change from the system to get more / better / faster loot will return to the point " i’ve nothing to do/ farm" , " running all other things but legend is pointless etc."

Man you spend over 500h in a low price game… i’m pretty sure that time was made by the gameplay and not loot… everyone will probably get to this point in any game , as long as it’s not the perfect fun experience for him/herself.
Nobody cant program a game faster , than youll play it till the end.
And yes… FS probably could just give out every weapon and cosmetic for free. The most ppl which are still playing (including myself), play for fun , the gameplay,the coop experience with friends and to improve their own skill.
All those red’s and cosmetics are just a side-reward for veterans and not freeloot for “50h grind next game pls.”

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As a native English speaker it was still pretty difficult to decipher your point but I’ll do my best.

I, not once, said that this should be a new method of grinding or easier box acquisition. I have stated multiple times that this should be implicated to make boxes that do not give higher rewards useful to players who are either at the endgame or do not wish to play Legendary for whatever reason by being able to combine them into chests that do give higher rewards. This would also be helpful to newer players where blues are more important that whites in Veteran etc. This would not affect Legendary so much as the other difficulties, if at all, to avoid people abusing it more than the system is already abused and the fact that all Legendary boxes contain Reds. Commendation chests should be exempt or have a different system. Read previous posts. I can’t really keep saying it in any other way. If you choose not to read certain things or look at the context in which things are said that’s not really my fault or my problem and you’re basically talking for the sake of talking.

I don’t care about portraits. I care about Red weapons because the stats are maxed which allows for a better build, which is the only reason to continue playing once every level is completed on Legendary and all achievements have been unlocked. I thought that would go without saying but clearly you need it said. I don’t really care about cosmetics either but when there’s nothing left to get for a character you sort of have to care about them otherwise what’s the point in playing a loot based game?

I’m currently trying to get 100 completions for headgear as there’s nothing left for me to do completion-wise. This means I had a lot of boxes that contained no chance to get rewards I wanted. If I could combine them into boxes that did have a chance for something I wanted in them that would be cool. Again, what part of this is so difficult for you to grasp? That’s the fourth time I’ve said it. And of the thousands of players in the game I can’t be the only one who feels this way or is in this position.

Gameplay is pretty far from skill-based. Rush from chokepoint to chokepoint, attack, block and dodge. The only skill I’d argue you need is aiming and even then that’s pretty much easy mode as far as shooting mechanics go. Even kiting bosses isn’t difficult. The real good players have a knowledge of positioning, tactics and overall logic and reasoning abilities. It’s team based; the only real time anyone dies when they understand how the game works is when one or more teammates don’t do their job and you get hit in the rear or a special gets you. And the occasions where the game rips you off but on Legendary these should be few and far between if you know what you’re doing. But I digress.

Why are you talking about Heavy Rain and other such things? I brought up other loot based games because it was relevant to my point. I agree, this game takes a little more skill than Diablo’s system of pressing abilities at the right time and maintaining buffs but it’s still a loot based game that centres around constructing your character based on the rewards you get from killing things. Read a review of either this or Diablo or another game I mentioned and I’ll bet money the word loot will come up as a selling point. So I don’t really get what you’re saying in that paragraph. But I also agree that games should be fun. And if I’m playing a loot based game that’s where the fun lies.

Also just as a side note, don’t tell me or anyone else how to enjoy a game they’ve paid for. Ive disagreed with you saying this is a skill based game and gameplay is the main reason people play it. I didn’t once say that it’s not enjoyable for you, me or anyone else. If you like the combat more than building your character then do you, but because you like that part the most doesn’t automatically make that the games’ focus.

I’ve played roughly 500 hours across both games. Again, use your eyes and read what’s being said before responding to something that isn’t even remotely true or relevant. And for the record, not once have I raged about the fact that I’ve got boxes that don’t mean anything to me, or even raged at all. I mean, reading the epic response of “I’ve gotten loads of reds in com chests” as an argument against this proposed combination system is funny and insulting at the same time but it’s nothing to rage about. I just thought it would be cool to have a system that’s already been in the franchise return to make it a better game and more worthwhile for the people at the beginning and the end of the game.

Anything else you’ve said I haven’t addressed directly is either because you’ve taken it out of context and made no sense, it was so contradictory to something you tried to say earlier, so ridiculous I couldn’t see why you even brought it up or I’ve already explained it in a previous post. Please do us both a favour and read everything in this topic before you attempt to respond again because I’m getting tired of repeating myself. Everything you’ve said so far that was valid has been addressed. If you don’t say anything new I won’t be replying to you again. Cheers

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Well i read all your stuff and i understand your opinion. And even if FS call this game a “loot-grinder”, this isn´t one. Not till the Okri update. It was a grind / craft - festival without the tons of reds.

As you call it a “far away from skill game”, i could asked you… where is the problem, that everyone plays legend then? So there won´t be any need to combine chests. Or just definate “skill”. If someone knows any game and the buttons, all will depend on reactions.
Actually FS want that ppl play on higher difficulties and you´ll get better stuff there (or atleast a higher chance). That´s pretty normal for such games.

And here is such a minor issue = The game lacks on content and i don´t get, how you can play that game for loot, if there are such a bunch of cosmetics / reds actually available + you can´t even see your own character without standing around and pressing X. A lot of cosmetics are just recolors or looks “sheet”.

We won´t share the same opinion here, i´m sure about it. But i would like to understand, why you´re dissapointed about the current system, if you already know all that stuff after 500h? Yes it´s not perfect, but obviously the lack of content / loot is the problem and not the system.
You´re right to call it otherwise " with that amount of loot, the system is bad, that´s why…"
In both ways ppl will always cry…

Like i said it already… this game just got casualized and it get´s “easier” from patch to patch. Just play and pray for RNG and you´ll get your red´s so or so. 1st the ppl cry about no reds… now they cry about duplicates and they want them craftable. So what will happen to that lootfiesta if you can craft reds? There will be nothing to farm, as long as FS don´t patch a big amount of cosmetics or housing stuff for the keep and that even probably for free. Otherwise a lot of ppl will be really frustrated.

I share your opinion about character customization, but sadly there isn´t much scope for it. No colors, not that much different armors etc. The only real “customization” lies in the weapons and that just change the playstyle a lil bit.
That´s why i actually just can tell everyone, play this game for fun and the gameplay and nothing else. Enjoy if you get a red / cosmetic, but don´t fix yourself on loot. It´s worthless…

And yeah i just brought up some timeless games, which will be played in the future over and over again, just because they have/had something special.
The only “special” about Vermintide is the gameplay. The rest is the same like in every other game.

Atleast it´s all up to yourself. I share some of your thoughts, but combining boxes won´t save the day. Not even for you, if you reached the point, where it´s no fun to grind the same maps over and over again.
I really would like to see more stuff too, i would like to get more to explore, more to “work” with. I would like to customize the keep like i want. I would grind the loot all over again, if it´ll reach this game once in the future.
Until that… i´ll play for fun… alone and with the ppl i met there…

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