Lightning\Explosion Boons. Delete\rework

Strange. I tried this at first and it didnt work…

Looks pretty OP yea.

Now, I don’t want to just disagree, but I think that’s a bit too simple.
There’re plenty of weapons that have inherent crit bonuses. Mercenary exec overhead, f.Ex., will start with 30% (5% +5% class bonus +20% weapon). +10% on at least half your attacks is reasonably easy to get on a variety of weapons.

Though the difference in power level between classes is undeniable.
There’s multiple boons that specifically require crits, and classes that aren’t equipped for it receive less bonuses of those boons.
I honestly also don’t understand why the crit bonus from maps is 10% instead of 5% - never has it not been picked when it was on offer.

An example of base class combinations being weird in CW is comparing Zealot (stacks limited to 6 even with 250hp) to SotT getting 3 guaranteed crits everytime someone uses an ult, stacking infinitely, with a team with 3 players with short cooldown ults that reduce each others cooldown by casting. Can give Keri 30 guaranteed crits before you find the first enemy in a map

To be fair on exe, that attack is slow, even with 30% crit chance you wont be zapping things all over like say WHC/pyro or engi can. Similarly and elf with SnD (15% crit) will score some notable crits but she doesnt actually hit all that hard with them since the weapon is lightweight.

Spear does hit hard though, but takes a fair bit more to make it work .

Fatshark has always been into weird balance decisions, remember that battlewizard rework that elevated her straight to godhood and she was sitting on that throne for like half a year before she got a nerf.

A nerf that just punted her from a full on god to a demigod, and then they also nerfed Cloak of Pain because OP but also added cloak of mist because reasons. Before nerfing both only recently… much later.

Which doesnt really make any sense at all, the only observable pattern seems to be a whim.

Oh that, it´s because it´s bugged (or lazy coding?) and it uses the profile for explosive bombs rather than some original new explosion that is based on whatever damage you did to trigger it unlike what it states.

Engi with leading shots explosive crits is basically holding a literal rapidfire cannon…and as overpowered as that is it´s still not something most except pyro&SoT can replicate.

Would be nice if they fixed that though.

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Aaaaahhhh thats why SoT with staff+explosion just deleted boss from the game…

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Her staff fires 4 projectiles per shot which each deal like 12-15 damage at that late stage. 30% of that should be almost nothing but instead it´s a rapidfire explosive bomb barrage.

I´ve gotten shockwave on the staff too (“only” stagger) and it´s just as outlandish to watch, heck it´s absurd even on just melee with 10-20% crit. Played handmaiden and i rammed a troll through a wall.

Still, most impactful thing i think i´ve seen is watching a ranger walk up to a troll, chug a potion in his smoke and then delete the poor troll before it even has a chance to go into recovery…I only know he had twinned arrow and that the pot was a prophetic strike, but damn it was still a troll vaporized in seconds without any warning or sounds except a few gunshots.

At least with explosive crits you know what is going on x)

Unless it changed during the past days, venting totally activates guaranteed crits if you have that talent.

Okay. May be i was wrong. Hmmm so yea it looks pretty OP.

Problem is, that’s literally the only thing worthwhile on pyro.

You’re a deadweight unless you get that boon or you end up as a discount melee fighter.

Explosion one definitely needs to be fixed to be actual percentage, not a bomb explosion going off.
As for lightning\guaranteed crits, it’s up to Fatshark, i.e. either the expeditions are supposed to have big variance in your power level or not. Slapping cooldown on both boons isn’t a bad idea.

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You conveniently forget about abundance of specials in games, Slaanesh curse, Miracle of Ranald, ammo boxes or the fact that any RV that needs a lot of ammo uses 30% talent and drowns everyone in ammo.

Again, a lot of specials, and events like to release them in waves. Not a bad boon.

Infinite wound clear is ridiculously OP, especially together with healing. The boon gives reviver 30 health, and it helps whoever got picked up to survive until they can heal. Sometimes you don’t have a heal on hand.

Actually agree on this one, pretty weak, as is Ladrielle’s meditation. Meditation could get another stack and this one I could see replaced with something better.

Yeah, it’s not like we have a very popular career that can store 2 charges on low CD skill. Or a Merc with cdr talent+cdr stat from level, or a Slayer, or a BW, you get the point.

I think boons like this one (or Ranald’s surprise) are needed, because picking random boons is supposed to be a gamble. You cheap out on a random boon, you might get something meh.

Yeah, this one’s too punishing.

Because the idea of using a buff potion and shooting some enemies is alien to you? There’s a literal potion of +100% damage, you drink and quadruple your ranged with single projectile.

I’d say make it work with shields, but not dual weapons. But yeah, a weird interaction, could use a fix.

That’d be way too good, especially with a torpedo. Also you’d probably drop any teammate caught in the blast.

You don’t share it, you take it from teammates. So it does not increase the total damage your party takes, like Baleful Empathy does.

Are you really complaining about needing to have something in those slots? It doesn’t slow you down, it’s not a grim that takes your health. I don’t understand this one.

Also I’d like Ptra’s Endurance replaced and Hoeth’s Swordcraft to be more than just a combo boon.

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The bomb damage is clearly broken by the talent description alone, not sure why it should stay as is because ‘not every class completely ruins all content solo with it’. Still turns the repeater rifle into a boss and super armor shredder while stagger locking them better than bounty hunter for damage not far off. From crits and not an ultimate…obviously there are other things in the mode imbalanced since it’s still Fat Shark, but a lot of those are just behaviors between other boons and careers/talents. Like I think Morgrim RPV Dwarf hard carries with just a shrine selection, so either after 1-2 or at worst 3-4 maps most of those huge waves of armor that form the bulk of difficulty in this mode get obliterated with no risk of FF. But for starters the critical lightning and ranged explosions are far and away the best talents in the mode even on characters that don’t exploit them to the umpteenth degree and could use an internal cooldown at the least to match every other powerful ability. A cooldown wouldn’t really stop them from being insanely powerful and functioning much the same as they do now but crit careers couldn’t use them to over clock their DPS beyond what the 3 other characters on the team could come close to matching. And yea the twinned arrow should only apply to every other projectile or something, but let’s start with the complete SoTT style jokes first.

Surely I’m not the only one who likes it as it is and even wants more extremes/randomness with bad and good modifiers etc? Lightning and explosive ranged are ridiculous on the right builds, but that’s part of the thrill of Chaos Wastes, you don’t know if you’re going to become ludicrously OP or get total garbage over the expedition.

If you want standard Cata you can do the base game (although, bosses melt there too vs anti boss careers/setups, that’s a problem they have in general that needs rectifying) - I wouldn’t be against them adding a separate mode like Twitch where you can adjust the difficulty up or down by cutting out positive modifiers etc, but I don’t believe it is necessary.

The main disappointment for me is you have a lot of boons related to damage and blocking, but not so many that play around with stagger and cleave and so on. You have some, but I’d like to see more - more with tradeoffs and more god modifiers too.


It is always fun with the potential of becoming overpowered, like any good roguelike. The problem with CW is that it is not the combination of boons that makes you overpowered most of the time, it’s just getting one of the “Big three”.

In other words, they need to remove/rework a lot of the absolute trash boons, but nerf the broken boons that trivializes the entire game mode.


One of most powerfull trait actually because its not killing by you, its when any specials die.

Very usefull boon one of better.

Its good boon, do you even read description how they work?

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Yeah, there just needs to be a ton more boons to help dilute the pool

Once you run CW enough (and really it doesn’t need to be that many runs) you realize how repetitive the choices get

The problem I have with these OP combinations of boons is that there are potentially 3 out of 4 people who are just backseating.
I do recognize that the odds are quite low (and either I’m very lucky or they’re not THAT low because I encounter them quite often) and that this is specific to the chaos wastes, but look at this :

Those are 3 people who basically walked with me through the levels, because I had these boons :

Alone, they’re not that big of a deal, but all this together was just absolutely moronic.
I had to apologize several times to my teammates because of how unfun this was for them, and ultimately this is the problem I have with these boons combinations. I reckon it shouldn’t show up a lot, but I feel like the game does tend to grant you synergies between the boons you have, and on the one hand it is nice to be able to use the boons you get, on the other this is too much.

There should be some more mutually exclusive boons (or groups of boons (like “crit boons”) of which you can only get 2 for example) to minimize this power creeping, even in a mode where it is intended.
This being a coop multiplayer game, having this kind of Unlimited Power (as I was literally throwing lightning left and right à la Palpatine) kind of defeats the game in my opinion.

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Well I have shared my opinion on this before but anything that can have the potential to make you god with just a single lucky roll is too powerful in my opinion.

And I understand the mode is supposed to get crazy but the moment someone gets ranged explosion I feel like starting a new run instead of finishing it.(It’s pretty much over at that point if the player is not totally trolling)
I might think differently if there was something like endless mode and enemies would just keep getting stronger until you wipe. But right now that is not the case and stunlocking bosses, patrols and events, especially with the more crit heavy careers is absolute anti fun for everyone else but the boon wielder.

I don’t think anyone really hates the randomness per say or the potential to get extremely powerful. Problem is you got 1-3 choices that if you hit, you basically ignore the system at that point, because you are already powerful enough to solo the content.
No one cares about combination such as perma block,parrys because its simply not as impactful as getting that 1 juicy 10 % roll for that 1 boon that deletes the whole screen.
Its actually funny that you are more likely to combine explosion with good career than to get perma block/parry combination.

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How about this?

For context, it was the wizard’s first ever cata game, a citadel expedition with us, and they did extremely well imo. Myself and the whc spent most of the game running around trying to kill something before the elf managed to blast everything into oblivion. Not sure exactly what boons they got. Lightning itself came very late and it was hilarious to see droves of bestigors just falling in one zap.

Obviously some things are beyond broken but I think it’s still early to say where the balance should lie. I feel that the Citadel itself can be fairly challenging in a vanilla run (outside of twitch) only if it gets the +Specials modifier. More often than not it gets completely steamrolled, but on rare occasions it can be quite overwhelming if the modifiers are close to Onslaught and nobody got busted boons.


You do realize half the fun of a roguelike is getting an OP build?

I mean, if a perk feels OP to you; don’t take it. But don’t ask for it to be nerfed or removed just because you don’t like it.
What about people who enjoy getting that little bit lucky to get an OP build? Should they be shafted simply because you don’t want the POSSIBILITY in your game?

The point is the random boons. There need to be ones that are OP or ones that are weaker, or the mode isn’t as fun.

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