Let’s talk about mod (part 2) - Report of a mod

the servers were particularly poopy last night. People were dropping out of games and getting stuck. I was rubberbanding like crazy and getting stuck while doing weapon swaps and ads-ing. Just saying, it does happen occasionally even if it’s not supposed to.

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You describe someone who, for whatever emperor forlorn reason, did not choose counterfire.

With counterfire you wont drop out of Volley Fire unless you have a whole bunch of Vets in your team that are alot quicker than you, or if there is nothing worth shooting (, or if we got those “not range mob” range mobs). Staying in Volley Fire also fixes the suppression problem, since you are immune, and it fixes the “you need to aim carefully” problem, since all of the prominent range weapons, aka Bolter, XII, Agrip Infantry, most headhunter guns, will bodyoneshot range gents, and deal quickly with elites.

The Vets who take Unwavering Focus are the ones who give a fart about their team mates. Camo Expert makes you virtually immune to all and everything, putting your portion of the damage onto the other people on your team.

Unwavering Focus only ever is OP if there are enough Elites/Special to kill. Even in high Int Damnation runs you will run into massive range camps every once in a while that are void of elites. They hurt.
If you pick any other form of THP you are either back to having to pick your shots to regenerate, or to slowly gaining some over time.

That Unwavering is also granting the Vet 75% DR to melee attacks is obviously lunacy and should die asap. When that is done Confirmed Kill needs some touching. I wouldn’t change the ranged DR at all. That would just trample on the already beaten up remaining two toughness feats.

(We also shouldn’t forget about the “Ghost” Blessing. The XII is already the king of the hill.)

Oh yes, not trying to suggest anyone should know how this stuff works with the info the game gives them. It’s obviously all really poorly conveyed, or really poorly implemented, or both.

I understand this stance but personally I find multiplicative DR intuitive in a way. If I pop 20% DR against snipers on a curio I always know that relative to the current damage I was taking, I will now take 20% less than that. With additive DR there is an odd almost exponential increase in effectiveness the more DR I stack.

Regardless yeah Zealot’s DR is ok but nothing crazy. I’ve seen people swing more and more towards EWEW these days. Crit DR is not always consistent for Zealot to have active while diving shooters, though it can be activated with your ranged setup fairly effectively with eg a Crucian HH or similar. With Vet I feel like I have much more control over activating that DR exactly when I need it. As pointed above confirmed kill may be the real powerhouse, regardless the combo of both currently gets pretty silly.

Are they really that bad outside of y’know, not being confirmed kill? I’ve run neither extensively but they both sound decent on paper.

Well one of them would require running only super accurate weapons, and/or having the aim of a human aimbot. Hitting weakspots constantly is incredibly difficult when there’s a lot of stuff going on / things aren’t running straight at you. It would also never work on the myriad weapons that aren’t exactly weakpoint hunters.

The toughness regen while staying away from enemies works pretty well for a passive playstyle. Someone who doesn’t dive into melee a lot, or isn’t running a close-range ranged weapon. It’s not as bad as camo, but it could be of a nature that encourages a fairly passive playstyle, and/or makes the vet always lag behind the group - which isn’t ideal. It’s good regen for basically doing nothing but stayin away from enemies though, but it certainly doesn’t fit all weapons or all playstyles. Personally I wouldn’t run it even when I’m running Helbores, which certainly tend to require me to be at least slightly behind the group just because of the long swap speed between melee and ranged.

yah, but that would be the “skill based” element of keeping something powerful afloat; it’s not designed to last forever, only as long as a player can keep it up. It would allow something like vet’s counterfire feat to be allowed on any elite or shooter, and be continued on any headshot kill (elite/shooter/special), rather than being restricted to a couple extra enemy types, and would also synergize with the buff it gives. Having a feat require a specific weapon type or playstyle would be the design intent, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Not at all.
From what i say, it is pretty clear that i am talking about a person using counterfire.

This alone should have made it clear enough.

Counterfire only has an effect on situations, where there are any ranged units in the first place and outside of the meatgrinder, it is pretty easy to run out of ult even when there are a bunch of designated enemies around.

Not getting a refresh on the ult does not require a bunch of other vets in the team.
Ranged enemies take cover. Quite often, there are a bunch of ranged units left, but they are all hidden at the same time. You have nothing to shoot at and lose your ult.

Maybe you shoot at two elites in a row, but both kills get taken by a teammate.
You lose your ult.

Many players have absolutely no awareness. If you have a teammate like that, who plays ogryn (which is not rare at all), they will just casually walk around right in front of you while you are already shooting at something. In many environments, this completely prevents you from getting a new line of sight in time and you can not shoot at anything but the meatloaf. You lose your ult.

Other teammates will just cower behind, or next to, a veteran who is shooting at ranged units, instead of engaging into the fight themselves (hopefully without stepping right in front of the vet and blocking all the shots).
Even while waiting for you to clear the ranged units, these teammates will usually not give a crap about covering you against melee units. When a few melee units come and attack you, you have to deal with them yourself and lose your ult.

Maybe a few bulwarks and crushers come towards you. Your teammates are camping out behind you and do not engage the incoming ogryn to draw them towards the side. You can no longer shoot any designated targets and lose your ult.

Maybe you just reloaded your gun right after killing a designated target, but now you have a split second where someone snags a kill from you, someone walks past you or what ever else. You lose your ult.

So yeah, even if you run counterfire, in reality you will drop out of your ult often and the “vet can have the ult up all the time” myth is simply just that. A myth.

Correct. There is no impactful suppression as long as the ult is up. I did not claim anything else, and for a class that is supposed to be range weapon focused, this is a requirement.

You still need to aim carefully because enemies that take cover (which they usually do), will only have an arm, a leg or maybe their head stick out (when they are exposed at all).
Even with 80% dmg, 80% stopping power, 25% dmg perk and active ult, you can not oneshot any of the shooting enemies on damnation with an mk XII, when you hit their lower arm or lower leg. Instead of getting your ult refresh, the enemy will get back behind cover.

Yes this is the only situation where one could consider it to be OP.

As i explained before, this is actually not the case at all.
It might be unintended (since the feat explicitly states “ranged attacks”), but it is good that it also applies to melee attacks.
If you play veteran yourself, you might have noticed that most players who stay back instead of joining the fight while you do deal with ranged units, will just sit there and not cover you against melee attacks while you are shooting.
The toughness damage resistance also applying to melee attacks, keeps you from getting insta killed by ranged units, when ever your sleepy teammates let melee units hit you and delete your toughness.

Having 75% toughness damage reduction against melee attacks in general, would be absolutely nuts, but that is not what the vet has. You have it only while your ult is up and to keep your ult up, you have to kill specific targets with your gun. When ever you do have that damage resistance, you have your gun out, which means that can not block any attacks and do not typically move around like crazy, as you would in melee combat. The sound of your gunshots also does not really make it easy to hear the hit coming.
Basically, you only have that melee damage resistance, when ever you are an easy target.
If you do get hit, this allows you to react to it, swap your weapon and engage in melee combat without getting insta killed.

It is not something that you can abuse by killing designated targets with your melee weapon to keep the ult up (because melee kills do not refresh the ult).
If you could, i would totally agree that it would be completely busted.
But the way it works now, it is simply a protection from getting insta killed while using your gun.
I hope they keep it the way it is.

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