Legend difficulty feedback

Hey,

I am now on 160 hours played on beta and 160 hours played on release and play a lot of legend difficulty lately.

What i noticed is that “Athel Yenlui” mission is much more difficulty then all the other missions. I wonder why this is? Could it be that the mission is been developed in the time of the beta and been balanced at that time period that the last couple of nerves on the characters caused that we have less attack power. That it is not really balanced anymore?

Also the level “Fort Brachsenbrucke” at the end when you must do the cannon. This part is really to easy and boring. You would expect you will be overwelmed of rats. Instead just a view spawns and two people can basicly be afk.

I wonder what your experience are and what missions you think are to difficult or to easy on Legend difficulty.

Update: After some conversations on discord we notice that a boss + hordes + multiple special spawns makes it really deadly. In most maps can be much better managed.

Also when this difficult period has end you got a long time that nothing happends anymore. We also ask why they desided this? Why not always keep spawning enemies to keep us at least busy? Its Legend in the end right?

I bet map balancing is under permanent development. For instance festering grounds: Noticed how in the closed beta before the bridge drops down (during the finale) there was ALWAYS a small horde spawning and now there is nothing till after you cleared the first clusters? It is just a work in progress and as the devs said they constantly change things around and want to improve on things so give it time.

Also hordes / special waves are on a internal timer and if you get to a part where you know there is a high chance of a boss spawning, just wait infront of it for a horde to come, clear it and then go into the area with the potential boss spawn.

In one month the game is going to be quite different I expect so just give it time.

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thats some good advice :slight_smile:

Convocation of decay is pretty damn annoying on legend, patrols being stuck in positions you can’t pass, gas rats shooting blobs through the walls

love the map though. it’s downright depressing

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Imo Legend is overtuned and Legend in general suffers from unbalanced, impossible to counter issues:

  1. Boss + Horde + Specials spawn. If you get that in some sort of tunnel or small area and the boss it’s Bile Troll it’s gg mostly. Horde should not spawn while there is boss fight. Specials - ok. All of them? That is simple BS. Can be done, but I call it 50% luck/50% Skill.
  2. Packmaster and Assassin spawns too close to players. In V1 they spawned far away from them and then had to run to you. You had time to hear their sound and prepare for them. Now they can spawn LITERALLY in front of your face, in the back of horde or just close enough so their “sound” doesn’t even have time to be played before they already grab on of your teammates. This needs to be fixed.
  3. Absurb Patrol spawns (especially Chaos). Sometimes Patrol just spawns close to your team and there is no way to avoid them. Then you get horde + specials swarm + Chaos Patrol and well, yea.
  4. Specials Swarming - at one point in almost every Legend game you just have a massive Special spawns- like 2 packs, 2 ass, 2 ratling, 1 warp, 2 Leeches, Globadier one, Globadier two and then again, all of them, and again, and again. Everything at once. Not only they don’t feel “special” but if you at the same time get boss or horde- it can be chore in small spaces. On big open ones at least you have room for it. Also, agian- spawn distance. I keep horde at bay with my axes in front of my team and I SEE how just behind horde, like 5-8m from me spawns two ratling gunners or warpfires… Wtf?
  5. Leeches teleport damage/health and Storm Callers range and casting through walls. This is pure BS. Leeches teleport damage is IMPOSSIBLE to counter. I had a games when some of us were already after downed state, 2 Grims. Got half of our remaining health back. BUM! Leech teleported on my head- I am dead… How am I suppose to react to it, block it, dodge it? It’s impossible. Then there is their health- they don’t even die from headshot from 600 Power LongBow, a thing that one-shots every special and SV. They are fat guys in ROBES- why they have more hp than Stromvermin?? Then we have Storm Callers range- like they cast from the other side of the map, sometimes on such long distance it’s impossible to even spot them with spot key. Then they teleport and go afk somewhere. Also in some maps, they can cast through walls. Reduce their range and make them NOT teleporting after casting, but only after they receive damage if players don’t manage to insta kill them.
  6. Bile Troll is still just stupid to fight if you are unlucky and fight him in tunneled area. Reduce his pile range and remove damage when you step on it or reduce duration of it on the ground to 1 second.

I am all for challange, but challange should be mechanically possible to master. So at some point you are able to counter challange using your skill you gained. Right now Legend runs have too much RNG involved.

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To some extend it makes sense. Nurgle stuff is notoriously hard to kill.

I agree, but if every other special can be killed with longbow headshot (which is not easy itself due to draw time and arrow drop) and he instantly teleport it just seems a little unfair. Also I can’t count how many time I have seen my teammate grabbed by Leech away from us and I scored perfect headshot from long distance but Leech was still alive and before I could draw second arrow I was already attack by some trash or had to back off from Mauler/CW.

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Hi,
Athel Yenlui is not so hard if you know where to stay. Generally, it is too early for devs to change the difficulty, while we learn to play the legend. It is important now to control waves spawns, what means, wait on them, kill them, move forward to the next ‘safe spot’ (corridor etc.). Then it is fine.
Except for the issues that Benny89 mentioned above. But, when you play well, you can actually win every second legend game with a decent team.
EDIT: I am ofcourse talking about full runs, not noob no grims/tomes runs.

the mid level spawns have always been a bit rough on that map. the finale is much easier now though, compared to the closed tests.

it honest to god feels like it’s bugged right now. there is no way it’s intentional. what is the point of a finale where everyone just goes AFK because there are actually no enemies?

my favorite is the troll spawning on the spiral staircase towards the end.

longbow kinda needs its own topic at this point. it’s so much easier to just body shot things with a crossbow, and more efficient honestly, unless you’re a headshot ace who can score one on a dime. easy to do when things are calm, not so much when it goes to hell. or how about the grudgeraker that can melt a special 25 feet away, and everything within a 10 foot radius of said special too. elf is really not the special killer she’s meant to be, or at least it’s not worth the effort in comparison to others.

Athel Yenlui is hard for the first 3/4 because it’s so open, minus the little part where you walk between the hills. You dont have a good place to put you’re back to the wall, tomes 1/2 and grim 1 are spread apart on the large part of the map, so you have to zigzag a lot, usually you’ll go through 3-6 hordes by the time you clear your path through to the tomes/grim. That part spreads you’re team apart a lot because it’s provides a large LOS on your group from the specials. Gunners/Gas rats can shoot you from super far away, blight stormer has his classic out of LOS storms that make things spicy. That’s not including boss fights, you’ll notice that usually if you dont finish that map it’s before you enter the cave. After that you get plenty of walls to reduce the amount of damage you take from random rats from behind. It’s basically chip damage that wears your team down slowly.

Fort Brachsenbrucke is fine at the end, it’s okay not to have overkill on the last part. The map is long and large, it’s easy to get surrounded or spread apart on it and die. Athel Yenlui isn’t much different on the last part, a few rats, 1 gunner, 1 gas, 1 flame i believe, 4 zerkers, a hand full of storm skaven and a bunch of trash rats.

Keep in mind, enemies randomly spawn on top/close to you. It’s not that uncommon to walk into an area where you see nothing and you randomly aggro a chaos knight patrol. It’s more important to manage your resources in legend, it’s also very important to use potions properly and correct charm traits.

The only thing that doesn’t make sense in my opinion, is the damage leech teleport beside you does. I had a leech TP beside me last night inst killed him. Looked at my hp and he took off almost 1/4 th of my hp even though all he did was TP beside me. That’s the kind of stuff that really can screw up the flow of a fight since they come in 2’s usually and if you dont kill him he’ll TP again beside you. You’re down to half HP from 2 leeches that have done nothing to you and you cant counter it in any way shape or forum.

For me, legend is good enough atm. Of course i am open to changes.

My friends would like to see weapons being more viable and diverse. They say that the halberd is too good to pass up for example. Greatswords are okay but is useless against boss and armored units.

For us, we almost always get screwed by stuck patrols. Other than that, we can get owned but at least we feel that is fun.

Again i sincerely wish devs would listen and make patrol sound louder.

Word that differently please, a dev might see it and decide to nerf the halberd instead of giving the others some love :yum:

others could use some love yes.

Totally this. Leeches teleporting inside players and punching them should be adjusted ASAP. I’ve gotten used to it to the point where I will side-step and start shooting them. I manage to do it faster than they punch me most of the time, but it’s still silly. A player also shouldn’t have to deal with that particular problem. I assume it’s not totally intentional though.

some feed back from my recent runs, (i could swear the first 2 runs are the easiest ones) dedicated boss spawn, hordes with specials (only hard depending on the position and/or bugs) but nearly all wipes have been because of a boss spawn during horde in small areas, hell even in hunger in the dark during the dark part. other wipes are chaos partrols which seems kinda too powerful, since the skaven patrol is pretty easy to handle, could be because the chaos warriors doesnt care about your staggering^^ cant really tell what can be fixed/buffed/nerfed. one time its a cake walk and the other time its so damn unfair that it isnt even a challenges its just straight gg. i want something inbetween with more consistency.

if you have a boss triggered while fighting a horde, it just means that your party is ignoring the horde buildup audio cue and pushing forward. you guys need to stop, retreat a little and handle the horde before moving on.

i see it all the time in champion and legend runs, it’s a party playstyle thing. when i see my party stop in their tracks as the horde cue sounds and warily look around, being paranoid, i know that we have a very good chance of completing it with full tomes and grims.

the worst runs are normally me trying to chase and support one guy that’s just pushing forward no matter what the heck is happening behind. those runs may be faster, but way more risky.

when the hord comes we mostly stand our ground without pushing due the 3 wave design the mostly also come from behind. during this standout the boss cue starts playing. the only way to avoid it is to wait for horde triggers before going to a possible boss spawn area. but this isn’t much of a fun.

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