That would be ridiculus buff, doesent the glave overhead deal like more than 50 damage with talents and proprieties? Correct me if i’m wrong I know i can oneshot stormvermin on legend.
I belive that the only thing the weapon needs is a special attack that is a thurst with some pircing damage so one could cycle push attack special attack on Cw and could be more engaging and rewarding to play.
Yeah was more an example of what could be done, rather than what should be done
this is what I’d go for if I thought greatsword needed reworking/buffing at all
Well what about something akin to the pick axe super charge, where if you super charge the heavy then it’s followed up with an armour piercing stab with high finesse.
Then the anti armour combo would be super charge heavy - stab - push attack. Maybe have higher stagger on the super charge heavy to setup for extra damage from staggering
Wouldn’t that make greatsword just a superior executioner/pickaxe? It also heavily infringes on the identity of the weapon - that of a horde clearing beast that struggles more with single-targets.
4 Likes
It would all depend on how much damage and armour piercing the stab attack has. You could even just give it the same damage as the push attack just to mix things up and lower the stamina requirement a bit.
As it would require a lot of time to charge an extra long heavy attack, the dps would be lower than just using push attack spam. I was thinking the light attacks should be changed to single target but their super fast attack speed still help on FK and Huntsman to deal with trash
I don’t see why any thrust attack should have a damage profile different from the push attack.
On armored enemies, 15~ on body, 23~ on headshot seems fair enough for a niche attack not available in the normal attack chain. Could even go lower since it’s a light attack, at 12~ body and 20~ headshot. For ref, stabbing attacks for spears and billhooks are around 4 - 5 damage on body, and the most comparable stabbing attack, elf greatsword’s heavy, is 17 on body and 50 on headshot.
But, it is a buff. Not really any other way to look at it. Anything less than 10 damage on body would be silly. It’d still look nice having at least one attack that isn’t a left/right swing 
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I don’t like Stab L3 that will be chainable from pushattack. It will have fixed feel and get repetitive since chargeds will be so much weaker vs armor. Yes current pushatk is repetitive for the same reason. But adding stab after pushatk is not adding variety, its reducing time to kill armor(and monster), it is the same thing as buffing pushatk damage and slightly slowing it down, or halving stamina push cost. Its not adressing the root problem properly - boring killing of super armor, and instead overbuffs the weapon imo.
I think its better to up the chargeds anti armor damage slightly (definitely below greataxe level), and add Heavy 3 single target attack - a stab, or even mordhau. You don’t chain from pushatk into H3, you get there by normal means - after either H2 or L2. But once you’ve done H3, you can chain it indefinitely with either L2 or H2. With this design you’ll have choice between pushattacking and H3 combo style, one is readily available but drains stamina, the other isnt draining but requires chaining through imperfect combo (for single armored target). It still wouldn’t be a huge buff to effectiveness of the weapon (imo, at least with right numbers), and can achieve the goal of more variety vs single target (armor).
ok but the root of the problem is people don’t care for the light attacks
also one of the perks of greatsword is being able to go ham spamming H1 and H2, adding a H3 would break that
3 Likes
Its a different issue, but honestly i think lights should get armor cleave, and chargeds get a very slight nerf to their speed (of the wind up).
I think by design lights and chargeds are both meant for the same thing - horde slicing, but with different properties, so that you should choose a right attack for the right moment while facing a horde. Lights are for narrow but fast slicing, heavies for wide sweeps but slow, riskier in a sense but more rewarding, requires more planning.
But when one is too perfect and the other is lagging behind - the design fails. Armor cleave on chargeds only - is setting them way higher than lights. Also all the attack speed creep makes chargeds self sufficient.
Yes, i agree that it will worsen the fluidness of horde clearing style. But not by much since you can block cancel after H2, then starting from H1 again. At least its not a single attack you block cancel spam.
The reason I keep beating on an extra L3 stab is because I don’t want to change the heavies and I don’t want it to have too many moves that make it indistinguishable in purpose from Halberd and Bretsword. Or Xsword, too.
Halfswording attacks would be cool, but look silly as heck in the unarmored hands of Hunstman, BH, and Zealot 
Would increasing the infantry damage of the lights and lowering the infantry damage of the heavies work? That way heavies are for safety against mixed threats/armour and for weaving in armour damage, while lights are for raw horde dps and need to be mixed in for the weapon to be effective. (I mocked this as the boring solution earlier but I think I was wrong to).
A heavy stab could be added as a special attack with a decent cooldown.
this may convince you otherwise 
:
2 Likes
Slightly off-topic, mostly not: I’ve seen you argue in favor of changing weapons with only a single attack vs. a specific enemy type just because they only have a single attack against that type, even if that weapon’s power level overall is just fine, in several threads recently. Like this one, but also about the M/H&S, and I believe the Flamesword as well. I want to ask: Why is that always such a problem? It’s pretty much just how this game is setup. Some weapons have simple and straightforward attack chains (like Greatsword, Rapier, etc.) while others have more complicated ones with different combos (Halberd, Shield weapons, etc.). That creates some variety and makes it so that there’s a weapon for every type of player as well.
I think that at this point weapons need only be changed if they are too weak or too powerful. The identity and feel of each weapon right now is in a pretty good spot, and the diversity is alright as well. The devs have better things to spend energy on, basically.
1 Like
Basically a completely separate reason: how fluid & varied stuff looks and feels.
For example i’m totally fine with 1h mace chargeds - its one attack in damage profile, but it has fluid transitions. But not fine with mace&shield pushatk spam (with or w/o uppercut), its choppy and kinda artificial. It’s a fixed feel with a mandatory push included (which you may not need).
Both mace&shield and greatsword recieved a singletarget attack as a pushattack, long after release. Personally i view them as band-aid fixes that achieve the balance purpose, but not the animation fluidness purpose, the transitions and all that. Especially since a singletarget profile was really lacking in these weapons - so its get spammed now repeatedly, which is fine if it would look not so choppy and same, instead having an alternating of sides like with 1h mace chargeds.
i’m 50\50 on that
Fair enough. I guess I kinda just like the state of the current gameplay balance. Would you be more happy if just the animations were changed?
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I wish the great sword is more like a in the lore those. A Huge two handed sword that just hit the things with great force.
Maybe, depending on how animations are changed.
If i want repeated pushattacks on greatsword to look better, then after the first pushatk, you should get in a different block stance (provided you didn’t release block button), and with next push attack you launch an overhead from the other side, compared to the first pushatk.
And so on, you alternate attack sides and block position if you keep spamming pushatk and don’t release block.
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main reason I wouldn’t want the heavies changed is it’ll end up stepping on Bsword’s toes a bit in terms of design. Also Greatsword feels at its best when you can just hack and slash uninterrupted by blocking or shoving.
The lights are the main thing which struggle here due to damage, cleave and stagger. They’re best for mincing through naked hordes/trash units but that’s all they’ve got going for them at the moment so if anything were to be adjusted I’d adjust/add to those.
Although personally I’m fine with GS just staying the way it is tbh
2 Likes
Isn’t it okay for the Greatsword to be boring? Chaining the heavy attacks unlimited each other is for me its main draw so I wouldn’t want anything changed to them. I don’t think we need more ap damage on the weapon. A weapon should have some weaknesses.
The Greatsword is good at what it is doing: Slicing down mixed hordes even though it makes light attacks redundant. If you want to make them somehow preferably than give them more monster damage for magical reasons -_- Not that it is needed, there are team mates for that.
2 Likes
whether or not it’s ok I guess is a matter of opinion/perspective
from my point of view it’d be neat if the lights were a bit more interesting but it’s not a deal breaker for me at all considering I’m ok with the weapon’s current iteration. One could make the argument that a well-designed weapon ought to make meaningful use of its full array of attacks and I’d be hard pressed to argue against that tbh. That said I don’t think it’s a big deal if weapons aren’t fully fleshed out in that manner as long as they overall still feel good to use and get the job done well enough to be a real option.
Greatsword I don’t think needs buffing at the moment and any addition to its moveset for single targets WOULD be a buff, even if the intent is variety rather than power. That said, if I were to make changes to the weapon in that way, I’ve already outlined what I would look at doing earlier in the thread.