Kruber greatsword needs a rework

Ok since you guys nerfed xSword before instead of nerfing mercenary it is barely good on any other career so we have to take a look on other weapons. Take greatsword for example, since xSword is slower than any turtle kind i have seen in the world and literally nails your feet into ground the moment you want to do something, even when you block, why not try greatsword. But the thing is; This weapon is extremely outclassed by other weapons. I mean i have no idea why krubers greatsword even exists at this point because i can see no point in even considering using it. It is not good at horde clear, it is not good at killing elites. On the other hand you can use 2h Hammer wich has both really decent horde clear and really decent elite killing potential with light overheads and insane stagger on top of that. Heck even one-handed sword does a batter job than greatsword in any situation.

So yeah, nerf Merc, fis xSword, buff other weapons isntead. I think that should be the moral of the story.

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Well yep, in my opinion Exe Sword didn’t need a nerf… but I don’t agree about Merc: the nerf he received is enough.
Current Merc has pro and cons when compared with WHC, Zealot, Unchained, etc etc.

I would like to nullify Exe Sword’s nerf. While, about Great Sword, its niche is about damaging high density hordes (with mixed elites)… where is better than Exe Sword and 2h Hammer… but yep, I would buff its attack speed a little.

p.s anyway I think it’s ok if certain weapons fit better with certain careers… a bit of specialization isn’t that bad

What in the hell are you on about mate?

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I completely disagree. Greatsword is a magnificent weapon for lots of situations, although it doesn’t give you immediate visual feedback on the damage you’re doing - especially with mixed hordes or mixed armour/elites. There are often occasions when a heavy swing will kill 3 maulers and an SV in the middle of the horde while killing all the little nappy-rats inbetween - no other weapon can do that.

It’s attack speed on FK with the talent that gives you speed-on-push, plus a smidge of +attack speed is fine. The push-stab is fine at killing lone SV or CW although when are you really fighting 1 elite on it’s own that doesn’t get absolutely stomped by the UB5 in seconds?

Greatsword can get a bit dull to play at higher difficulties as you’re pretty much using heavy sweeps all the time, but I think some of the challenge with it is that it works completely different to his other weapons. It doesn’t stagger things, and when your muscle memory is programmed to expect an enemy to stagger when you heavy it and it doesn’t stagger the enemy this makes players take sucky hits… I know, I was that soldier for a while.

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Tbh ? Exactly this. But for a weapon that has a low amount of stagger, in it’s own category Greatsword doesn’t really have “Wide sweeps” either. I would call them pretty narrow. In fact that is exactly why i say one-handed sword is actually a better choice in the same class. Wider sweeps, pretty much same range(wich is odd ?), they both kill elites really slow and it is faster.

I will play with greatsword some more and try to make it work somehow but i doubt it will work quite “unique”.

What difficulty are you playing. 1h sword and greatsword might seem similar on lower difficulties. It’s a great weapon on catactlysm.

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Cata/legend, i actually decided to use greatsword a bit more since it may have just been my inexperiance with the weapon itself.

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To me the biggest problem of this sword is that is soooo BORING i would sign up if they did a compleate rework of the weapon.

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Everyone says that GreatSword is fine but anyone dont play it. In my last 100 QP random games i have not seen anybody playing GS in any of them.

Is by far, the worst and more boring weapon in the game.

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Because it’s a weapon that excels against high density and mixed horde which none of the base game difficulties provide outside of Twins.Good luck trying to chew through a horde of armor+trash on Twins with Exe

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I still support giving Greatsword new light attack pattern, but it’s not that bad.

Running a Greatsword build for WHC and not hating it, obviously not even close to his most efficient build, but getting 4 kills off of one perfectly aimed crit headshot will never not feel amazing.

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I never gave the greatsword a real chance before I equipped it on GK, and that’s most likely because of this. It’s so monotonous to use, which is remedied by using it on GK to make it part of your melee outfit instead of the o ly weapon you’re stuck with.

Since I started using it a bit more I finally realize why it’s so highly praised by large parts of the community. Extremely strong but very bland.

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There’s an untapped complexity in greatsword - using dodges offensively, compensating for slow run speed of charged attacks. Turn to enemy sideways, dodge into them, release the charged swing, rotate your camera to extend it, dodge back to safety, etc. Its essentially the same lunge/jousting tactic as on greathammer, but requires more mechanical skill.

Though recent ridiculous buff to movespeed while charging (20%->60%) reduces the importance of it, but its still fun to do, and especially with dodge distance talent.

A weapon that really needs reworking is mace&shield imo. The single target combo of it is nothing but a band-aid fix for the flawed design. The only viable way to fight single targets is doing the same push-attack into uppercut, over and over again. If other attacks weren’t so bad vs single target - it wouldn’t be as boring.

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Frankly, you don’t even need the attack speed talents for the weapon to work. After someone said in a thread that he wants Greatsword to work with Footknight I wanted to try it out since I was sure it already works.
So I took the Foot Knight have chosen Staggering Force, Enhanced Power, Comrades in Arm, It’s Hero Time and Numb to Pain. Smashed 5 % attack speed (yea, a bit attack speed is there) and 10 % against Chaos as well as Opportunist. Added more power against Chaos and Armor (I think) on the Charm (?) and started playing. And at least up to Cataclysm the build works well enough. I can stagger most stuff safely and what I can’t stagger reliably I can just ram down. Staggering Force is a really cool talent helpful for a lot of weapons.

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Its a weaker version of executioner
''GS is better in mixed hordes cuz of heavy linesman cleave"
yes and no - exec if played well hits 400+ headshots a match and it obliterates SW in normal sweeps and destroys CHW in heavies.

GS on elf is done marvelously, bonus crit chance (+25% on push attack with HM stamina regen is pure joy), normals for trash - double heavy for anything else. Headshot are VERY strong and crit modifier is also superb. On top elven GS is fast, heashots are not as easy to do with it, it requires some training in angling and positioning and its not always possible like with rapier BUT still manageable ~220 HS per match

Kruber/Saltz greatsword needs to be on par with other weapons he has

  1. access to anti armor overhead ALSO through normal chains and not just as stamina resource = like elven GS double hit but in reverse - heavy sweep -> aimed stab/overhead
    Anti horde chain - light 1 - heavy 2 like with longsword. Anti armor fastest route -> push attack/heavy
  2. more stagger on headshots - its slow heavy cumbersombe and 1h sword is honestly a better weapon in almost any situation
  3. 10% crit on sweep attacks -> lights and heavies designed for sweeping. (its the same idea behind - elven 1HS is better against elites but weaker against hordes <-> exact oposite of human 1h swords)
  4. 8%+ more attack speed on heavies

Is GS a bad weapon ? No
Does it need a full rework like halberd did? No
Is it overshadowed by 1handed sword or exec? Yes

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I think Rebel came up with the right solution for this weapon already. Simply make the light attacks interesting/varied so that you aren’t just using heavy attacks all the time. The idea of a stab after the push attack would also make the weapon feel a lot better, which is in my opinion the most important part of any weapon. Could even revert the BBB buffs if this was done.

The lowest effort solution would be to buff the infantry damage for the lights. Boring but easy fix.

The Greatsword is one of the safest weapons in the game due to its combination of mobility, reach and superarmour cleave. Only thing it doesn’t handle well is killing Chaos Warriors.

The Exec probably does still overshadow it, but I wouldn’t put it below the 1h Sword. The 1h struggles a lot more with mixed hordes and is more of a Huntsmen/sometimes GK weapon.

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1HS is better than GS if you are hitting headshots, which is easier with more horizontal sweeps.
Esentialy 1HS has a higher skill cap than GS and outperforms it there
But it doesnt have to be like this
2HH is a VERY simple weapon with realisticaly 2 attacks :smiley: and yet its a pure joy to use

Greatsword imho should follow design of the greataxe bardin has
Light attacks are fast and strong enought against anything that isnt CHW.
Heavy attacks are just better - cleave, stagger, dmg, anti armor dmg BUT slower
And all have their usage
IF greatsword was just krubers greataxe wariant -> much faster than 2HHammer with less stagger but MORE dmg. Where light attacks are designed to kill 1-2 targets and Heavy attacks are like now but with more stager on headshots (its a slow weapon after all) it would a contender to exec

It’s usually the only thing I play on Zealot.

It’s possibly the most fun Weapon for Cata+ and for the Tzeentch event, especially. But it’s overkill for Skaven and overkill for Legend-.

Agree with this. It was one of his most useful Weapons before the new Longsword came out. It’s still good though.

Yeah, this buff was weird to me, but I guess it made it more useable for things like WHC, BH, Huntsman.

The simple fix to your problem is to just play the Bretonian Longsword. It’s basically a mix of Greatsword and Exe Sword.

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The 1h Sword is ineffective against shields and has lower aggregate armour dps than the Greatsword. The lack of armour cleave means its Paced Strikes up time for Merc is inconsistent on Cata, and its push attack is not as desirable, lessening synergy with FK. It ceases to be an effective front line/cc weapons when shields and armour are thrown into the mix, as it will only stagger one at a time and only stagger the chaff enemies on one side of the elite it hits. It does have a headshot modifier but the damage it does on headshot is still not very high. It also has less reach. The 2nd light is good for multiple headshots but the heavy attacks have low damage cleave, limiting their damage potential despite the angle.

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But you do 2 attacks instead of one, plus you are way more mobile. GS makes you prety much a turret without the RAW dmg/stagger of 2HH or Exec.
Zealot can use it very well but zealot could use bare hands very well with all that bonus power and AS he has
When shields are in the mix there are only few weapons that dont lose much of their efectiveness
Armor on the other hand depends alot on how well you hit your headshots.
Really only armor in numbers that matter are SW (if you fight 20CHW patrol only shield can CC during that ) and exec deals with that with just lights, and 1HS you need to dance a little but you can do it.

GS inst bad, it certainly deals with mixed hordes good enought but its just boring, heavy attacks are just light with more dmg. 2H hammer atleast has simple, LA is Bonk and HA is sweep and both are superb in this but slow-ish
Thats why I said before that, elven GS is how you do it. Excelent weapon on all 3 classes, can use temp hp from cleave crit or kill. And moveset is simple - LA for hordes, HA for armor. Same concept as elven 1HS

Give human GS more LA, 3rd one overhead/stab against armor that would be chainable with HEAVY stab 3rd. Maybe 10% crit chance on sweep attacks and we are golden

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