Kruber greatsword needs a rework

Greatsword is fine

Yes it has an extremely simplistic move set but the weapon is perfectly fine.

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You’re right, but moveset almost seems too generous of a term. It’s nearly only two attacks.

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The weapon isnt bad, it doesnt need drastic changes, it doesnt need combos like halberd or longsword
2 H hammer has prety much 2 attacks and they work great
Exec has 2 attacks and both are excelent at what they do
GS has 1 attack with weak and strong variant, and a anti armor attack that requires stamina
The least GS needs is attack chain to get that overhead throug LA or HA or Both

would changing the light chain to include attacks that are a bit more headshot friendly help?

not even necessarily an overhead but just changing the angle of say, L2 to be more horizontal similar to how Exec lights are?

There were a few threads during the beta that went into that. And I still agree with folks here that GS’s attack chain can be tweaked.

My favorite request was that it have any kind of thrust attack. Only elf’s swords have a stab so for a human weapon it would feel and look different enough since the only comparison for those characters are Halberd, Spear, and Rapier.

A suggestion I had tossed out was the stab be a follow up to the push attack in the same fashion that Bardin’s dual hammers have that extra attack.

And, yeah, I do think light 2 being visually different from light 1 would go a long way into making the weapon feel more satisfying to use without directly giving it an unneeded buff.

:thinking: ok an extra attack after the push-attack and a flat horizontal attack would qualify as a buff, though.

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People who talk about the Greatsword being a weaker Executioners have no experience with the weapon what so ever.

The highest kill and damage count you can achieve as Kruber on Cata is with the GS. The heavy linesman chains are only slightly angled, which makes you able to scythe at head hight into waves. It will only stop when there is more than one armored target in your way, or a CW.
Heavy attacks cleave six marauders in one swing. The “much better” Exsword will reach half that before getting stuck.
Damage wise the GS also wins by being able to one hit everything up to cata gors thanks to the damage modifiers from FK and Merc, while the exsword will need a second swing.
Sounds like not a lot to people that are not used to playing cata, but being able to just end a bunch of Gor in one swing is quite something.

Then there is the better dodge range and the extra effective dodge on the GS, which makes evading kiting infinitely more comfortable.

The only thing the Exsword is good at is killing Elites fast, and to be honest, its only killing CWs faster, since the reworked handgun just ends SVs.

The capital crime the GS commits is not looking anywhere near as good as the Hacker skin from the Executioners.

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Really the light attacks suck but if you are content just spamming heavies its perfectly fine and probably more viable than exe in most situations.
For me it honestly comes down to the simple fact that its boring as (insert something) to play with compared to nearly anything else in the game.

If we wanna increase the pickrate of the weapon, we can indeed add a better single target attack, that would automatically make the weapon have a higher pickrate, but it’s not needed, the weapon is fine, its good at what it does and has weaknesses. Great weapon in my opinion. Not every weapon has to be universally good at everything.

Are the attack patterns simple? Yes. Exec’s attack patterns are also simple.

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I guess it’s a matter of satisfaction as the lights do feel somewhat purposeless outside of naked hordes?

Idk it’s never particularly concerned me but I can see it turning people off it. All I know is the weapon is intended to be basic and it’s effective at what it does

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Yes, its also difficult to make ‘interesting’ patterns without messing up the effectiveness of the GS in its area. Yes you could add attacks to it to make it lack less in single target, but thats not needed in my opinion. If its just changing the patterns because its visually boring for some? then i would say don’t change anything. i’m not against them changing the patterns visually, if they are able to make the attacks the same in effectiveness but more visually appealing, then its fine. (not contradicting myself, i meant 'changing attack combo’s for visual reasons, then don’t change, just changing visually without changing the effectivness is fine (example; instead of it swinging from left, swing from right)

I think its a bit the same discussion with halberd light>heavy sweep combo. It looks weird and simple. players would like a new animation to it, but not make it less effective at what it does. So for example, make kruber use the back on the halberd and swipe back from where the light sweep ended could be a possibility, etc.

I mean technically you could make GS light attacks more single target focussed and the heavies horde focused (this would help ‘differentiate attacks’). As the exec has horde focused lights and single target heavies. So in this case GS is still better at hordes, and exec is still better at their single target. But i don’t know, this is mostly my balance perspective talking here, i don’t want every weapon to have access to everthing. i think being super specialized in hordes and having 1 single targety pushattack is more then fine in my opinion. But at this point we are discussing subjective things, as some players actually want every weapon to have access to everthing, while just being super good at another. i don’t mind weaknesses as on crowbill or 1h axe, for example.

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You could honestly remove the light attacks all together and it would not matter much for this weapon at all. While not every weapon needs to be good at everything (though the Greatsword is quite versatile) every attack in a weapon’s moveset should have a distinct purpose.

The lights and heavies could have their damage values tweaked so that the lights have higher dps on infantry/berserkers, while the heavies have higher dps on armour. Then further specialise this by making the heavy attacks out-dps the lights at a certain number of infantry enemies (higher than it is currently). This way mixing in lights with heavy attacks is actually beneficial to horde clear and not just for triggering Swift Slaying, but the lights don’t become an excessive blender on chaff.

While i understand what you mean. Currently its a bit like that just not as in depth.
You light attack for trash and heavy once an elite steps in (pretty much, inb4 i get attacked by rebel :^) ) Thats a distinct purpose from my point of view.

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so way I see it there’s a couple options here:

  1. change the angling of 1 of the lights so that it feels more unique but doesn’t necessarily impact the play of the weapon (maybe make headshotting a little easier with L2 or something)
  2. Add a 3rd light attack that is a lunge, maybe allow the push attack chain into it as well. Although I worry that may make the weapon “overcomplicated” compared to how it’s intended to be

Obviously secret option 3 is do nothing

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i play with the greatswords on my zealot and foot knight. its a great weapon :smiley:

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great sword is very good at killing mixed horde. it is only poor at killing armored stuff quickly. to fix this let the push attack headshots do more dmg. like how the rapier headshots do many times more than body attacks. so if you need to get rid of armored quickly, aim well. keep its attack pattern as is. if increase dmg for push attack head shots is a no go, then reduce the stam push cost to 1 stam so you can do more push attacks. there are many options besides changing attack patterns.

thing is, imo, the weapon doesn’t need buffs

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ya its fine on cata, but if it is to be buffed the way i posted is better than changing attack patterns

I did some dps tests (nothing in depth though) and the heavy attacks almost always out-dps the lights except on tier 1 chaff enemies.

Perhaps a very, very minor amount of armour piercing damage would allow the lights to be used as a finisher on armoured enemies?

Imo lights are there for their speed mostly. If you can get away spamming only chargeds(even solo), then lights just lose their purpose. So one way to make lights more needed is to nerf chargeds speed (speed of wind up).

Its when chargeds arent fast enough you have to weave in some lights to keep initiative. Its also a matter of attack angle vs enemy position - if enemies aren’t surrounding you, lights should be more optimal.

And the 2nd way to make lights more needed - is to add armor sliding to light attacks. That way even in mixed hordes you’ll have this dynamic of alternating between attacks - depending on the speed or attack angle you require.

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Yea thats ‘trash’. I was oversimplifying.

I mean, yea, they could add a overhead kinda light attack which chains from heavy into it, or from push attack, but idk.

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