Greatsword generally feels fine. It’s a very balanced weapon.
The only issues I could see someone having with the weapon are headshot angles and the main single target attack being gated by stamina (Push attack)
This one…
…this one understands.
GS is a hard carry if you master it. It may seem simple but it’s not, it really rewards planning ahead by 1-2 seconds and herding enemies into a kill zone, or winding up attacks so they hit at max range just as the enemy walks into it. Nothing is quite as satisfying as headcapping 2 SV at once while also cutting their slave rat friends in half.
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ehhh greatsword is definitely a simple weapon, the finer nuances to it are the exact same things you’ll find in a variety of other weapons
that’s not to say it’s a bad weapon or that it’s skill-less; it’s ok for a weapon to be simplistic yet effective
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these nuances aren’t as pronounced or required to do good in other weapons. Greatsword chargerds require all of: 1) timing, 2) positioning, 3) swing extension to achieve full potential. Because of combination of high damage, big cleave with relatively high damage to 3+ target, and relatively slow attacks. Close thing is greathammer, but it adds much less overall damage if you swing extend, compared to greatsword.
So the weapon is simple, but it uses game mechanic (swing extension) to the fullest extent, you have to hit 3+ targets each time to make greatsword really shine. Few other weapons can function like greatsword: you rush in, getting as close as possible to the thick mob, even allowing to be surrounded - to cleave them all in one swing, then dodging back, then going in again. The swing aiming (vs multiple targets) and awareness you need to develop for this - is something unique to greatsword and only few other weapons (like greathammer). WIth most of other weapons, its just isn’t worth it to try and maximize cleave damage like that - because they have more damage drop-off to 2+ target, or have faster attacks…
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You don’t have to sweep your mouse across. if you hit the limit, you hit the limit. its a skill to recognise where and when you have to use it, but its not something that you have to do constantly. You can do it all the time, if you’re not sure if you cleaved max tho.
Every 2h and even 1h weapon requires timing and positioning to use, swing extension aswell to a certain degree, depends on the weapon and the situation.
And ofcourse greathammer adds less overall damage when swing extending. Because greathammer has a limit on damage, i think it still staggers tho?
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Merc full power greatsword: what is limit?
ofc, but not to the same extent. Sure you can use greatsword and stay on the edge of fighting, don’t push into hyperdensity, like using many other weapons which will punish you for trying this.
yes, it mainly rewards stagger for swing extension
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I agree that the Greatsword is more complex than it appears on the surface. I find the Flail in many ways similar (though I think the Flail is unfortunately simpler outside of CWs).
Outside of the timing you’ve mentioned, the biggest thing for me with the Greatsword was learning how to manage stamina. It’s much more vital for this weapon to deal with threats than it is for others, particularly against shields. Every push attack matters.
You’re correct. However, I think in terms of complexity the Greatsword makes up for a limited moveset by requiring rather precise timing. Most weapons usually have one or both of the following:
- Large windows to block cancel (mainly applies to 1h weapons)
- High mobility (again 1h weapons)
- High stagger (2h mostly)
The Greatsword has decent mobility but it is by no means exceptional in this regard. It can be very dangerous to use. It sits (or it did before the movement buff) at the sweet spot of stagger, cleave and mobility and arguably relies more on maintaining momentum than even the 2h Hammer does, but through timing dodges and mixing in lights instead of sheer stagger.
Imo Greatsword makes for a great ally. Keeps masses of chaff staggered/dead while not staggering elites, making them easier to headshot. It’s like a frontline fireball staff without the friendly fire.
It stops a little bit after the fabric of reality itself.
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Seems like people are over-exaggerating how much skill Greatsword requires.
It’s a simple weapon taking advantage of a simple mechanic, that’s it.
I’d say there’s more skill involved in simply knowing when to swing, block, dodge and push.
Again, these “skills” are beneficial to a variety of weapons.
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Every single weapon in the game has this, if you master it you will do well. All weapons have nuances and optimal distances where you hit headshots or etc etc
150 Headshot or 450 headshots rapier WHC runs are a day / night difference. Skill isnt a valid excuse for the weapon to be boring
GS has 2 attacks. LA and HA are the same, only the numbers differ
Push attack is the ONLY anti armor attack and its stamina gated so YAY
lol, true
Well i agree, was mostly showing that its not purely something for GS. charging a heavy always requires some timing.
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Of course we are. The real point is that it’s not as simple as it seems on the surface. If Fatshark gives it a stab after the push and vary up the light chain a little and it will easily be a great/complex weapon.
Completely true. Giving the Greatsword more complexity would not be bad. So long as it’s done correctly it should increase its skill ceiling (correctly as in not something like turning the lights into ap overheads, which would make it easier which would just be a direct buff imo).
Is this becoming a Strength vs Dex thread?
it is the lack of stagger that catches people out who are expecting a 2h weapon to stagger elites. I think this is why people say “LOL GS Sucks bad it is soo weak…!!!1”. Sucking up an overhead you can see coming and doesn’t get stopped by your swing is a fairly horrid thing to admit and causes quite a bit of rage as it makes you feel like a cretin for even letting it happen.
GS is not too complex, although it does require a complete change of mindset than Exe, or Hammer.
If I could change one thing, it would be having the push-overhead gated behind stamina. When a single CW can required six/seven/eight overhead push-stabs to down it gets monotonous.
In fact - even as i type this - I’d keep it as it is and simply reward the push stab more. I have no idea about concrete numbers but some kind of modifier to reward Headshots would be great here. @Incandescent might help me out. Are there headshot modifiers that might make it really rewarding to pull off 3 push-stabs in a row and kill a CW? That seems like rewarding some skill in play.
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It would be possible to swap out the damage profile to something a bit more high impact
or just flat buff the weapon’s finesse but that would apply to the whole weapon and not just a single attack.
disagree
literally every weapon needs this to achieve full potential
Greathammer, tuskgor spear, 1h sword, spear and shield, mace and shield.
wouldn’t it then be more prudent to tell it how it is so FS isn’t sitting there combing through feedback like “oh well clearly it’s complex enough, look at all these great comments about the hidden art of the weapon”?
do you swing extend with single target attacks? there are many weapons that have only them / consist mostly of them. Then there’s the attacks that just have low cleave limit (but not single target) - hitting 2-4 mobs at most, you won’t swing extend much if at all.
The timing requirement is higher on lower mobility / lower attack speed weapons. Greatsword charged is that thing.
Positioning plays role in how much mobs you cleave in 1 hit, - again it plays on GS strength of damage cleave, highest in the game afaik.
These 3 things exist in other weapons to do good, but my point was that these 3 are more crucial for Greatsword to do good / they reward you more. In other words, using greatsword to maximize these 3 points - results in a different enough playstyle from other melee weapons.
oh. I was hoping for a single, acute buff to the push/stab overhead. 
Like I said, I don’t know enough.
Greatsword is Great. Clue is in the name.
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Could slap a different damage profile on that could give it that extra oomph, maybe the one Glaive overhead uses or something. Otherwise it is possible to just create a custom damage profile to get whatever you’re looking for, it’s just that it’s a lot more work than just changing a single line of code
I can’t speak for anyone else but I feel like I have been.
Here’s some more ideas:
- Increasing the single target stagger of the lights for defensive purposes
- Increasing the infantry damage of the lights while decreasing the inf dmg of the heavies to encourages weaving the lights between heavies more
- Giving the lights the Tank modifier (I believe tank is better for Marauders/2nd tier chaff infantry).
bit of bias ofc but ALSO…I like being a speedy bean with the Greatsword, helps separate it from exec that lil bit more.
personally I like the idea of a lunge attack as a L3 that the push attack can chain into. The weapon would still be basic but can be a good teaching tool for newbies about combos whilst still have a little something extra for veterans to utilize
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It’s pretty fun on Zealot. Very good mobility and decent control. I miss the feeling of timing heavies though, which feels less important now.
Increasing the mobility of the lights through higher movement speed during lights instead of heavies would keep this aspect while also giving lights a better purpose. The Greatsword was always good at kiting, what it really needed was an extra option in its gameplay loop in my opinion, and making lights have higher movement than the heavies gives the player choice when kiting - safety (light) or dps (heavy).
I personally would have increased the movement speed on heavies from 20% to 40% instead of 60%.
A lunge into the push attack would help, as even on Merc at max stacks it takes 6 headshots/9 bodyshots on CWs, and it’s not the easiest headshot either (though it feels pretty good to pull off).
I hadn’t considered this. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Greatsword is one of the first weapons most players use, so it’s fair for it to relatively simple.
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yeah I’m pretty sure it’s one of the few weapons you have access to from level 1 hence its design being the way it is.
pretty much ever since V1 fatshark has had a methodology regarding weaponry where some are intended to be complex whilst others are intended to be simple. They do try to keep all weapons viable/rewarding to use across difficulties though; just some have a higher degree of accessibility than others.
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