Kerillian 2H sword heavy attack

Lately i’ve been using the 2H sword with the Handmaiden (first to avoid the almost certain auto-wins with players joining as the sister of thorn, but after a while because it is fun)

Anyway… I reflected a bit over the heavy attack of this weapon, and it might be me that is needing a course or 2 on how to play, but is the hit boxes for this attack not a bit off (either too small or a bit to the one side of the target)?

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I also think something is pretty weird with it, headshoting a SV moving even a bit is much harder than what it should be going by appearances.

Kinda goes for trying to headshot CW with the spear 2nd heavy too, something about the angle&hitboxes makes the hit connect with their chest&shoulders a lot. Even when it feels like the hit goes to the head.

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Thanks for describing! Right on spot.

That is not exclusive of this weapon. Every piercing attack on elf weapons act like this. Speak is the most annoying because you can get some real advantages with headshots

It typically helps to aim up and left of where you want to hit, as the hitbox is angled somewhat weirdly:

To compare I targeted the centre top point of the dummy (it avoids adding the “pick up dummy” popup:

image

same attack from the back:
image

Not sure if this is any help.
I don’t have the spawner mod installed to do this showing an enemy.

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Also, despite the size of the weapon and the animation (one-handed full arm lunge plus weapon length) you have surprisingly little reach.

I set up a quick experiment where I could be certain I was stood in the exact same place and just out of reach of the dummy.

2h Sword H1
image

1h Sword H1

S&D Push Attack

Now what’s weird here and something that frustrates me greatly with enemy attack hitboxes is that sweeping attacks create wide boxes that have greater reach than they realistically should.

Case in point 1h Sword H3:


This hit the dummy from the same distance away as all of the other attacks used.

This is also why slave rats have 10 foot daggers if they are slightly above/below you.

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Wow thanks Xanoth!

To me this also explains why the light attacks with the 2H sword seems to have much greater range than the heavy stab attack which imo should have greater range (at least from looking at the animation).

This could be a great backlog item for a newcomer @ fatshark :slight_smile:

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This is just anecdotal, but it seems like the melee attacks on the javelin have much better accuracy with regards to hits and the animation matching. I feel like I can much more intuitively score headshots with it than the 2H Sword heavy 1 or the spear’s stab attacks (any of them).

Anyone else agree?

Also, what mod are you using to visualize those hitboxes?

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Hitbox Debugger:

I think with the javlin the attacks are much more vertical (except for light 4 or 5 which is fully horizontal).
While you’re still typically wanting to aim slightly towards the top of the head so you don’t clip the chest it’s more consistant

image

It also has a MUCH longer thrust, compared to the 2H H1 attack (jumping to separate:

To ensure no range is added from a jump I did repeat the 2H H1 in the air, it goes no further:
image

The elf spear does have slightly more range than the 2h, but not much. Maybe 1/3rd the difference of 2h vs javlin.

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I main 2h sword for her and I would suggest getting used too the lunge. When not in combat just use the charge attack to get used to the timing of the motion. Using the lunge attack to start your combo is good, followed with a push attack and dodge. Then turn the lawnmower on and get to chopping. Also, even using the lunge as a dodge back when close can help. Think of a more Rapier type of poke that Saltz does. Also, only charge on elites or specials. Particularly the Packmasters, they will be the make or break when it comes to headshot if you decide to challenge them head on. Chaos Warrioir can be tricky to land a headshot.( I tend to snipe them with longbow before it gets to melee )

Stormvermin with shield you can go for a push attack into charge once they have their shield down.

Hope this helps!

If you ask me, Kerillian’s longsword needs a complete rework on the animation, because it makes absolutely zero sense.
Upwards slice as normal and stab as charge attack? Who in the world thought that that would be a good idea?

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You know… for bonus armpit damage.

I love the power attack animation and love that you can hold it forever bit the precision of it is wonkers and the reach is triple wonkers. I would like to see how well it does with a longer reaching, more precise stab.

The light attacks are obviously bad for heads but I don’t mind them too much aesthetically. The charge Should be great for heads but isn’t somehow.

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Well, as someone with a little know-how about swords, the animation choice is absolutely abhorrent.
Again, upwards slice for a weapon that should be swung downwards or diagonally.
Fatshark only chose this animation set just to make it unique compared to the others, and ended up butchering the entire weapon class.
Like, I could’ve accepted the charge attack- if it would link to a horizontal cut straight afterwards if you pressed again.

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But it does do that?

Apologies, I didn’t know that because I don’t use bad weapons.

Edit: what I did mean by horizontal was that the following attack should be charged, like the one-two of the glaive, but it has (seemingly) the same power as a normal attack.

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How do you know they’re that bad if you don’t use them :stuck_out_tongue:

More seriously though it isn’t a great weapon, but it’s far from unusable on Cata. Do the light attacks get crit chance for being uppercuts? If not they probably should.

Also make heavy attack have a bit more reach and a bit more damage and it’d be a perfectly solid weapon overall IMO.

Ah I see. Yes the follow up isn’t that strong. It does seem to have good cleave and a decent headshot angle though, so it’s a rather nice follow up after singling an elite out of a horde with the heavy attack.

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Let’s be real about something; the game is not very kind of two-handed swords in general. Aside from the Executioner Sword, there’s never been a time in this series’ history where two-handed swords were considered good, let alone meta. I’m including the Saltz and Kruber ones here. Kerillian’s at least has an interesting attack pattern on lights and heavies, but the others just have boring patterns and are pretty useless.

Just for even a change of pace I wouldn’t mind those things getting some total reworks and big buffs. Give the human two handers a special attack where they half-sword and stab to pierce armor, for example.

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Its not a bad weapon, I chew through mobs faster than slayer Bardin on legend and cata. If you consider the weapon bad because of its elite killing potential, then you have yourself a valid point.

and yes the stab attack does link to a horizontal slash. (it can be used to move faster)

I call bogus unless you happen to be playing handmaiden and the slayer isnt using a weapon good for anti hordes.

There is literally no way otherwise, slayer has all the steroids to faceroll a normal horde at top speeds in melee. The elf greatsword on its own does not compare at all.

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From a paper standpoint, you’re correct. It also could be the circumstance where slayer Bardin’s have fallen off due to Engineer, or I have not experienced any madmen slayers in a while. The weapon can still go toe-to-toe with clearing hordes in relation to any class.

The key for me, is to combo the 2h push attack into your attack rotation, with the handmaiden stam regen, you can stagger mobs down pretty effectively, swift slaying or not.

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