Oh boy balance passes every 10 months instead of a full year. Very exciting.
11 Likes
The problem with Duel sword isnât that itâs âtoo goodâ but that itâs âtoo good relative to the other optionsâ : Ogryn is very strong, but itâs not really a big problem since Ogryn have a lot of builds that are viable an heâs not strong enough to completely trivialize the gameplay. So heâs strong but itâs still fun, and doesnt disincentivise experimentation
Comparatively, the Duel sword is leagues above every other melee weapon for human sized characters : it deals insane damage, is fast, mobile and pierce carapace. In a game where a part of the fun comes from experimenting with new builds and ideas, having one weapon that just does almost everything better than everything else just sucks since there is no need to experiment with anything anymore. This weapon is the best by far, making any attempt at theorycrafting with another one pretty dull : and thatâs where lies the issue. Ogryn being borderline OP as a whole now isnât really a big issue since he still has a great build variety, but DS is broken in a way that funnel most meta build into âjust use DSâ
7 Likes
Will be interesting to try out the shotties. I see the numbers, but that doesnât tell me how it feels. Glad to see them getting som love!
2 Likes
The Dueling Swordâs exceptional single-target damage comes at a cost: its killing efficiency isnât actually that high when facing groups of enemies.
1 Like
The DS is too efficient against a group
Thatâs the main problem
Ds has:
- high speed
- horde control
- carapace damages pretty high
- can kill any elite in one shot
- too good blessings pool
Too much for a single weapon
4 Likes
All classes with access to DS4 have sources of AoE damage
7 Likes
Yeah, thatâs its only weakness : a pretty mid horde clear (not even the worst)
Iâd say itâs far from enough to compensate for the fact itâs the n°1 weapon for doing everything else
Like, tac axe and TH too have bad horde clear : but theyâre both still incredibly far from the DS in term of overall power
every class that have access to the DS also have a ton of options to deal with hordes outside of their melee weapon, itâs easily the most common type of tool in the game
3 Likes
Iâm assuming you mean mostly-trash hordes here, itâs still pretty good in this department while being best-in-class, far ahead of most everything else in the other more important depts.
The fact that you can selectively and purposefully delete high value targets in mixed hordes while doing so with crazy mobility (which can be made even better with Agile) is nuts and of more importance than plain horde clear.
Toss a frag as a Vet and profit.
7 Likes
Yeah⌠youâre not wrong, everything seems to be affected by some Morrow-esque time dilation, stuff youâd expect to be addressed in say 3 months,or 5-6 at the latest becomes 6-12 months.
Itâs been like this for what, over a year now?
Itâs quite dishearteningâŚ
Like the only reason shotguns are being looked at is because of the paid RBTs DLC.
9 Likes
Good choices for underperformers. I think Infantry Lasguns and Headhunter Autoguns could also use a look, as they are overshadowed by their rapid-fire counterparts.
I do not believe the buff to the Boomstick is going to be enough to make it more viable.
I would like to see a change to saw weapons to reduce the total saw time so we get the full damage faster - right now there is very little practical use to saw, similar to what was described for Hellbores.
7 Likes
Reading the replies to this thread hurt my soul something fierce. Dueling Sword is ridiculously overpowered, with above average multi-target, and beyond ludicrous single target, with hilarious mobility, and well above average defensive capabilities. There is no metric by which the Dueling Sword is lacking in any way, shape, or form, and it needs significant nerfs along several axes. Ideally, itâs capabilities vs armor (especially carapace and unyielding) are crushed into the ground, though I would accept it as an anti-armor weapon and hyper-nerfing its damage vs hordes and non-weakspot hits too. The latter feels weird to me, but I can see an argument for a thunderhammer-esque anti-elite/boss weapon that trades the activation mechanic for demanding high-precision.
Plasma also needs a nerf, though far less desperately than the DS. I like the idea implied in the OP here, where the light attack gets nerfed to push for more use of the right click and the greater risk of failed heat management there. Itâs a pretty elegant way to curb the worst of its excesses.
10 Likes
Regarding Tax Axes, please buff their range to match the knife as they resemble more T-Rex arms than anything else.
4 Likes
Well, I suggest you hide out for another 2.5 years then because these same replies and repliers are ten-fold in other threads mentioning DS4, if your soul is hurt now it will be crushed upon reading those.
Iâm by no means a gaming god or anything but I feel like some of us are playing completely different games sometimes.
I think a VT2 rapier 2 levels charge suggestion has been made in the past, hold longer for a stronger anti-armor poke for super armor.
7 Likes
Next pass?
This is from March 7, and thatâs just the official acknowledgement since the issue has been brought up even before the Duelling Sword has been given to Veteran and Zealot - which is like a year at this point.
Then the problems have finally been acknowledged in March, and now weâre told that three more months of having the Darktide resemble Dear Esther rather than Vermintide or Left 4 Dead is not enough⌠Okay, so will the next balance pass be in a reasonable time frame, or are we making it half a year now?
EDIT: The comment is towards dev team
Just to make things clear - this comment is towards Darktide dev team and not the community manager, as the entire âopen to discussionâ thing was brough up before Kitefin took over. So please donât take my harsh tone personally @FatsharkKitefin.
13 Likes
Yes, I donât dispute that the Dueling Sword is among the top-tier weapons. But being at the top -tier doesnât automatically mean it need sa nerf.
Just look at the Tactical Axe. It was once a top-tier standout too â until its blessings got nerfed. It immediately became trash-tier and fell completely out of favor.
If the Dueling Sword still requires players to find ways to compensate for its lack of AoE, then consider the Ogrynâs Bully Club. That weapon arguably has ânoâ real weaknesses; it can handle virtually any situation simply by spamming light attacks.Thatâs the true current âmeta kingâ. Itâs the Bully Club that seems genuinely concerning right now. Even if it is the current meta king, I still donât think it specifically warrants a targeted nerf. The difficulty level in Havoc missions has finally caught up and provides a real challenge now.
2 Likes
I once had a moment where I gave the âuh huhâ and âyeahâ style responses to a friend as he bitched while I was fighting a raid boss in FFXIV, he asked me a question and I was like âwhat? iâm sorry, I missed that last bitâ and he asked what the last part I heard was. I told him what I remembered and he goes âDude, that was like 10 minutes ago, Iâm not even mad, Iâm impressedâ and thatâs probably how Iâd feel if Fatshark pulled that off.
4 Likes
^^ my avatar endorses making shotguns and double barrel great again 
as for DS and PG, i just caution against a âvengefulâ attitude of some people apparently frustrated by their dominance that they want them nerfed into the ground. we want a vast arsenal of equally useful weapons with specific strengths and weaknesses, not weapons no one uses.
4 Likes
BeeTeeDubs, looking at DS MasterItems.get_cached() items, note the âadamantâ in the allowed archetypes? Thatâs the Arbites afaik.
Iâm assuming this mean for the DS4 dump below, Arbites gets it.
__master_item = {
__isort_current = true,
__isort_equipped = true,
__isort_myfav = 1,
__isort_type_current = true,
__isort_type_equipped = true,
__isort_type_myfav = 1,
__isort_type_new = true,
archetypes = {
"psyker",
"veteran",
"zealot",
"adamant",
},
P.S. Oh and a hidden âBrokerâ archetype mentioned, I just did a 6s search on the Discords and confirmed their mentions.
Along with the usual shared human stuff:
Arbites (adamant) weapons:
autogun_p3_m1 Vraks Mk III Headhunter Autogun
combatknife_p1_m1 Catachan Mk III Combat Blade
combataxe_p2_m2 Atrox Mk IV Tactical Axe
chainaxe_p1_m2 Orestes Mk XII Assault Chainaxe
combataxe_p1_m3 Achlys Mk VIII Combat Axe
combataxe_p1_m1 Rashad Mk II Combat Axe
autogun_p2_m1 Columnus Mk II Braced Autogun
autogun_p2_m3 Agripinaa Mk VIII Braced Autogun
lasgun_p1_m2 Kantrael MG IV Infantry Lasgun
combatsword_p2_m3 Turtolsky Mk IX Heavy Sword
stubrevolver_p1_m2 Agripinaa Mk XIV Quickdraw Stub Revolver
stubrevolver_p1_m1 Zarona Mk IIa Quickdraw Stub Revolver
shotgun_p2_m1 Ironhelm "Hacker" Mk IV Assault Shotgun
shotgun_p1_m3 Kantrael Mk IX Combat Shotgun
shotgun_p1_m2 Agripinaa Mk VII Combat Shotgun
shotgun_p1_m1 Lawbringer Mk VI Combat Shotgun
laspistol_p1_m3 Kantrael Mk X Heavy Laspistol
laspistol_p1_m1 Accatran MG Mk II Heavy Laspistol
lasgun_p3_m3 Accatran Mk VIIa Recon Lasgun
lasgun_p3_m2 Accatran Mk VId Recon Lasgun
lasgun_p3_m1 Accatran Mk II Recon Lasgun
lasgun_p1_m3 Kantrael MG XII Infantry Lasgun
lasgun_p1_m1 Kantrael MG Ia Infantry Lasgun
autogun_p3_m2 Vraks Mk VII Headhunter Autogun
boltpistol_p1_m1 Godwyn-Branx Pattern Bolt Pistol
autopistol_p1_m1 Ius Mk III Shredder Autopistol
autogun_p3_m3 Agripinaa Mk IX Headhunter Autogun
autogun_p1_m3 Graia Mk VIII Infantry Autogun
autogun_p1_m2 Columnus Mk V Infantry Autogun
autogun_p1_m1 Agripinaa Mk I Infantry Autogun
powermaul_p1_m2 Indignatus Mk III Shock Maul
powermaul_p1_m1 Agni Mk Ia Shock Maul
combatsword_p3_m1 Maccabian Mk II Duelling Sword
combatsword_p2_m2 Turtolsky Mk VII Heavy Sword
combatsword_p1_m3 Catachan Mk VII "Devil's Claw" Sword
combatsword_p1_m2 Catachan Mk IV "Devil's Claw" Sword
chainsword_p1_m1 Cadia Mk IV Assault Chainsword
combatsword_p1_m1 Catachan Mk I "Devil's Claw" Sword
chainsword_p1_m2 Cadia Mk XIIIg Assault Chainsword
combatsword_p3_m2 Maccabian Mk IV Duelling Sword
combataxe_p1_m2 Antax Mk V Combat Axe
combataxe_p2_m3 Atrox Mk VII Tactical Axe
combatsword_p3_m3 Maccabian Mk V Duelling Sword
combatsword_p2_m1 Turtolsky Mk VI Heavy Sword
autogun_p2_m2 Graia Mk IV Braced Autogun
combataxe_p2_m1 Atrox Mk II Tactical Axe
chainaxe_p1_m1 Orestes Mk IV Assault Chainaxe
combatknife_p1_m2 Catachan Mk VI Combat Blade
Note no bolter (big 2h boltgun) which zealot got.
Edit: BUT itâs shown in video, so a a good lesson to take leaked things with a grain of salt.
P.S. This is in no way indicative of a final version afaik, I have no special insight beyond looking at some values via simple dump mods.
6 Likes
Oh man Iâm so glad it will be available on Arbites, the class would be sooooo totally totally dead on arrival without it. Will the doggo get Duelling Sword as well? I hope so cuz otherwise itâs gonna be soooo poo poo 
6 Likes
Man thatâs just Thrust. Takes about as long to pull off as VT2 rapier full charge, too.
1 Like