Hello Forum!
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One year ago I’ve made a discussion post that proves why Duelling Swords are op.
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TLDR:
Duelling swords and the Uncanny Strike blessing are still overpowered today!
If you disagree, see points 7-12 below.
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To celebrate this anniversary, I’ve beaten the Dark Rituals map, True Solo on Auric HISTG difficulty. Here’s the gameplay (sorry, the quality is a bit fried):
Additionally, as the DS4 with uncanny is considered OP, I’ve also done the same mission with a gray, profane DS5.
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This clearly overpowered weapon is available to the 3 OG classes since P13, April 19, 2024 and its power has only been modified once in the recent ‘Bound by Duty’ update:
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Duelling Swords detailed changes
Damage Profiles
Heavy Strikedown Stab
Finesse multiplier from (1.5, 3) to (1.2, 2.4).
adm vs Unyielding from 1 to 0.8.
adm vs Flak armour from 0.8 to 0.7.
adm vs Carapace armour from 0.6 to 0.5.
Reduced the active window of the attacks using this profile.
Heavy Strikedown
Finesse multiplier from (1.0, 2.0), to (1.1, 2.1).
Impact from (6,12) to (7,14).
adm vs Unyielding from 1 to 1.25.
Riposte Attack
1st target properties similar to the pre-update Heavy Strikedown Stab.
Other properties similar to the Devil’s Claw Riposte attack, but with reduced strength on secondary targets and lower cleave.
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This change didn’t do much in terms of nerfing the performance, because in the same patch all three classes that can use this weapon received talent tree reworks, and this rework only increased the base damage nullifying the small effect of this nerf.
Additionally, tuning down adm vs Carapace doesn’t achieve anything if the weapon has access to the Uncanny Strike blessing.
I’ve been arguing with randoms online on this topic for a year. During this time I’ve accumulated a lot of common questions and formed a strong opinions about it.
In the Q&A below, I will summarise the arguments and common takes/questions that arise around this topic:
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- Why is the Duelling Sword overpowered?
a) Mobility - In Darktide mobility is the most important stat you can have. If you watch my true solo video, you will see how I can completely ignore whole mixed hordes supported by absurd amount of specials thanks to movement speed.
This weapon has the best mobility in the game. The full list of benefits is too long, but I will say that this level of mobility currently doesn’t have any cost to out weight picking this weapon over anything else with less speed.
b) Damage / Attack Speed - This weapon has one of the best DPS numbers in the game AND very high attack speed. You can easily 3-tap crushers and it takes less than 2 seconds.
c) Target selection - This weapon has no weakness when it comes to target selection. It can kill hordes, specials, carapace and unyielding enemies no problem. Uncanny Strike exists.
d) Parry - This weapon has been recently buffed with the strongest special action a melee weapon can have. Now you can ignore overheads and safely tank chaos spawns and demonhosts just by pressing one button.
e) Range - This weapon also has a decent range which further allows you to poke key targets from a safe distance and then dodge backwards.
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2. The only meaningful way to nerf this weapon:
a) My personal opinion is that all high mobility weapons should be weak against carapace/unyielding simply because these weapons can kite all enemies indefinitely. This would also add an incentive to choose low mobility weapons if you want to kill Carapace fast. (This means that daggers should also be adjusted)
b) Carapace damage modifier should be lowered further and Uncanny Strike should be limited to 30% or reworked completely. Why?
Current meta setup allows players to kill crushers in 2 or 4 hits depending on buffs/crits. This takes roughly less than 2 seconds on Auric. The last update increased the Crusher’s health pool because they were no longer a threat. Killing this guy in 2 seconds still invalidates this enemy and only makes DS4 more of a must-pick. Additionally, you can ignore all overheads by using parry.
c) Unyielding modifier should also be lowered. Currently this weapon shreds bosses, even the profane DS5. However, this is lower on the priority list.
d) Nerfing mobility could be fair, but in my opinion, it affects the weapon’s identity more than nerfing the Carapace DPS. According to some people, being able to outrun entire hordes and almost all specials is too strong. However, movement speed is a core fundamental rooted deeper in Darktide’s balance. Changing it has a much greater impact than changing the Carapace adm.
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3. Let’s nerf horde clear speed / cleave!
a) This won’t achieve anything.
As stated above, mobility allows you to kite the horde indefinitely, which means that lowering the horde clear speed isn’t a meaningful nerf, because when wielding this weapon horde is never a threat unless you make a misplay and get surrounded.
Additionally, the attack speed and single target damage are good enough to clear the horde comfortably even if it always hits only one enemy per attack.
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4. Make this weapon Psyker exclusive again!
a) It’s not possible, it will cause a community outrage and Fatshark will never take that risk.
b) Let’s not forget that this weapon is also OP on psykers, especially after the 50th Scrier’s Gaze buff.
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5. Make only mark V available to Vets/Zealots.
a) While DSV without uncanny strike is actually very close to being balanced, I don’t see the point of restricting the other marks. The overperforming damage profiles and blessings should be nerfed.
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6. H40 was balanced around the Duelling Sword / Duelling Sword was balanced around the H40.
a) H40 balancing is a deeper topic that needs a separate post, so I’m going to write a short reply here. I’m playing H40 weekly and DS4 is not needed to beat it.
b) Even if this weapon was balanced around H40, it shouldn’t be because it can be used everywhere and it trivializes the game on lower difficulties.
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7. Will you stop whining about nerfs in a PvE game?
a) I make one post a year on this topic. It’s not much and it’s not whining, it’s a discussion.
b) Darktide is not a PvE game, it’s a multiplayer coop game. This means that your performance (which includes overperforming) affects the experience of other players. Darktide is fun, because it’s challenging, if the difficulty disappears, the enjoyment of overcoming the challenge vanishes too.
c) Balance wise, it’s easier to nerf 3 overperforming DS marks than to buff 56 other melee weapons and then buff all enemies in the game. Please google ‘Power creep’.
d) Also, please google ‘iterative game development’.
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8. But this is my only anti-carapace option!
a) False. Here is the list of H40 viable anti crusher options:
Psyker: force swords, force GS, daggers, taxe with crying gaze, if you’re desperate Rashad,
Zealot: TH, Eviscerators, Relic blades, taxe with crit keystone, chainaxes, daggers, Rashad, Crusher,
Vet: power sword, power falchion, dagger, Rashad (not like you need it with a million kraks in your pocket)
Not mentioning Ranged/Blitz/Abilities.
b) This is why this nerf is needed. There shouldn’t be a single weapon that solves all problems. When making new builds, we should consider our current strengths, weakness and make decisions that result in a functional outcome. This part of build making is now obsolete as DS4 is always the correct answer and picking other melee options is simply playing for challenge/fun.
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9. But I like how overpowered it is! / I don’t want my OP option taken away!
a) If you want to experience power fantasy without improving your gameplay, play a lower difficulty.
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10. Without DS4 I can’t win at the Auric difficulty. / How else do you kill 5 crushers and 5 maulers and 5 ragers and …
a) Improve your skills or lower the difficulty.
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11. But I see random Malice players die when using the Duelling Sword.
a) Poor performance is not an argument. Players who are still learning or bad at the game are not an indicator of the weapon’s power.
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12. If they nerf the DS, it will be useless! Fatshark will overnerf it to the ground!
a) The profane DS5 is still a very strong weapon as Carapace is only one part of the game. DS5 allowed me to outmaneuver and deal with 468 specials and 171 disablers in one game.
b) The nerfs I’m proposing here are very slight. I’ve beaten Auric HISTG True Solo with an unupgraded, gray, profane Duelling Sword V. Nefring Carapace damage to this levels of dps is the perfect solution. It forced me to bring an anti-armor secondary (bolter) and this is exactly how Darktide should be! Weapons are supposed to have weaknesses that we should overcome with skill and well rounded builds.
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13. Your true solo run is not indicative of a regular gameplay and this weapon shouldn’t be nerfed just because you won.
a) I recorded the gameplay to demonstrate my knowledge of the topic and prove that I can pose as an expert.
b) While I’m not expecting anyone with this weapon can true solo HISTGs, it clearly shows that DS4 with uncanny allows me to hold W and stab everything in the face, and that this tactic is incredibly effective and has no downsides.
c) Both of these runs also show us the difference between Uncanny DS4 and the profane DS5, DS5 run was harder and took me 20 more minutes, just because I had to play it safe and needed to take my time when facing the armor packs.
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14. If this weapon is so overpowered, why didn’t they nerfed it yet?
This is a great question! I don’t know! But if I were guess, I’d say that:
a) Fatshark wants to avoid the community outrage - Anyone who remembers the early Power Sword nerfs and the reddit vets meltdown and review bombing, knows that the casual audience doesn’t like having their OP option taken away.
b) Devs want us to use our equipment as an additional difficulty modifier. This would mean that using the DS4 is like playing on the easiest mode.
c) I think they know.
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15. It’s the other op stuff that needs nerfs (purgatus / plasma / etc.)
a) While I agree that infinite cleave gets stronger the higher enemy density gets, and becomes op on high havocs, I want to focus on melee weapons in this post.
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16. It’s zealot that’s too strong, not the DS.
a) This weapon is even stronger on Psyker / Vet. I’m mostly playing Zealot for until death, because playing solo is unforgiving.
b) Asian meta chasers say that Zealot is too weak to play H40, they literally won’t any accept any zealots in the party finder xdd
In my opinion that’s far from the truth, I’d say skill issue.
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17. Why do you post this AI slop here?
a) I’ve written this all myself. I’m not a native English speaker, so it might be weird sometimes.
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Please let me know what you think.
I wonder if Fatshark ever reads posts like these xdd
o7
