How would YOU balance the dueling sword?

On a general level, the balance of the dueling sword would be improved by changing:

  • Change the damage
  • Change the stagger
  • Change the crit & weakspot power (scaling from finesse stat)
  • Change cleave
  • Change dodge amount
  • Change dodge distance
  • Change stamina
  • Change the attack speed
  • Add class restrictions (ie. only psyker and veteran, or only psyker has access to the weapon)
  • Remove some blessings from the blessing pool
  • Change how some blessings work specifically on the sword (ie. how fast thrust stacks build)
  • The dueling sword is balanced as it is currently is, i would not change it
  • None of these apply for me
0 voters

Certain dueling sword marks in particular, need balance improvements:

  • MK IV needs balance improvements
  • MK V needs balance improvements
  • MK II needs balance improvements
  • None of the marks need balance improvements
0 voters

The dueling sword is too effective against specific enemies:

  • Crushers
  • Maulers
  • Ragers
  • Bulwarks
  • Reapers
  • Gunners / shotgunners
  • Melee specials (mutants and dogs)
  • Ranged specials (snipers, flamers, bombers, trappers)
  • Bosses
  • Not too effective against any specific enemy
  • None of these apply for me
0 voters
2 Likes

The DS is a mess because player power in general is a mess. If we went back to the days where 1 crusher was a significant thing to handle it’d be a different story.

9 Likes

Remove agile, reduce finesse multiplier, adjust carapace damage, also adjust thrust values

8 Likes

Honestly think the only thing that truly breaks the Dueling Sword is the addition of Agile. Having Agile AND Uncanny Strike is just to much, one or the other and I think the sword goes from ‘literally game breaking’ to ‘excellent but not earth shattering’.

Dropping some of it’s multipliers a bit might help in that realm too (I know I run around with an Agile/Riposte Dueling Sword with 60 Penetration to ‘feel alive again’, and that drops a crusher in 4-5 hits and that feels respectable but not game breaking. It’s when I jump onto my Havoc build and my 80 Penetration full stack uncanny strike Dueling Sword is 1-2 shotting them where it it’s suddenly a problem, as now I have infinite dodges, infinitely high mobility, AND everything in the game is now dealt with by this one poky stick.)

Like, the Heavy Eviserator before this basically does everything that the Dueling Sword does/does it even better with better wave clear, but it has draw backs. You have to get off a full rev to one shot a crusher, you are generally slower than other options. But Dueling Sword has no draw back, it’s just god tier, and either it’s insane access to infinite mobility, or it’s infinite rending, need to take a hit.

And to be clear, it’s pretty much entirely the IV that’s the problem, it’s one of the reasons Psykers ‘in the know’ knew it was busted, but it didn’t become a problem until unlocked and loaded. Build variation wasn’t wide spread, and if you didn’t see a IV with the perfect rolls you’d never know how busted it was. But, now we do, and it needs some ‘custom tuning’.

As a Combat knife with x3+ the range, Agile, and an insanely fast and easy to replicate (animation wise) poking heavy, just trips over everything.

2 Likes

make the hitbox thinner and remove the headshot priority on hits :shushing_face:

1 Like

Remove “Agile” and “Thrust” (why is this on a finesse weapon anyway?) and change “Uncanny strike” to add rending only on fully charged heavy. Also none of that x amount of stacks during x amount of time BS, just a fixed % on hit.

2 Likes

The reason the DS is so strong is that every single aspect of it is strong. There’s not a single real downside to picking it. Top tier damage, mobility, a crazy good blessing selection and a unique weapon special that’s argueably one of the strongest in the game.

The entire package put together is what’s problematic about it.
I’d personally only slightly adjust a few things to keep it a strong choice but that may not be enough to make a real difference.

The damage needs to come down ever so slightly. I understand that the DS’ is supposed to be a single target weapon and needs good single target damage to fulfill that role but it’s just a bit too far ahead of the curve currently. I wouldn’t touch the horde clear performance as it’s not fantastic but good enough and that can be an aspect that too easily nerfs a weapon too hard, too quickly.

The movement speed being the same as a knife is crazy as well. Making the movement speed slightly slower would make a massive difference. Bolt pistol movement speed would probably feel right.

The weapon special is the icing on the cake for me.
Not only does the DS have the DPS to just delete everything, just in case the situation gets a little too hot, you have an instant gauranteed stagger ready at all times. That being said, I’d probably not change anything about that. I wouldn’t want to touch the unique aspects of the weapon before trying other things first but it may be the kind of utility that’s unnerfable without effectively removing it.

4 Likes

remove ds completely, done! issue solved so everyone can stop talking about this and instead talk about the amount of bs this game has, enemies phasing into each other, silent enemies, connection issues (that has nothing to do with the internet connection of the player) idk actually work into fixing the game to be less bs, cya.

idk if agile is really that impactful honestly, having uncanny strike with shred/riposte for extra crit is usually better in my opinion.

6 Likes

just make it a VT2 saltzpire rapier and you are done, super easy

kinda curious why there are more votes for the mk5 (the only one who doesnt have a heavy stab) needing balance improvements compared to the mk2, which has access to the best horde clear out of the 3 and still has the thrust stab that makes the mk4 so broken

the mk5 is arguably the most balanced out of all the marks, only making its way into overtuned territory due to the existence of uncanny strike (which even then still puts it behind the other mks for the tasks you are taking uncanny for anyway) because of its significantly lower armor damage (and base damage overall) on the heavies since theyre only overheads

1 Like

The same way they nerfed the knife.
Nothing, lol.
At this point it I’d just rather buff other melee weapons to be able to compete with it.

I would reduce some of the heavy poke damage, since there is no need for this weapon to compete with big and much slower twohanders for singletarget damage. And, of course, a dueling sword needs a parry special.

12 Likes

I don’t trust Fatshark to touch anything, anymore & if they do it turns into sht just look at any past re-balance. Besides, the conversation surrounding this is like beating a dead horse, boring. Yeah, there’s going to be some OP stuff in any game obviously, but Hot Take: OP weapons does not help raise the skill ceiling. The hardcores will make their own fun of it & try other routes. Reguardless, I still enjoy playing the game here & there Duelling Sword or not. Really think people are being babies about it. It’s literally a PVE game, lol.

9 Likes

Just remove Agile and it’ll be far more balanced.

Me personally would rather want other weapons be buffed a bit.

definitely gotta hit the finesse modifier, I’d like to see dodges reduced a touch too (probs keep the distance but drop the total number of dodges)

if the heavy and general mobility can be brought in line it could see a little more cleave on lights in exchange. Sabres are meant to be versatile, not a pocket single-target nuke

the blessings could also use a touch up…it’s kinda nuts that thrust is available on it but if it’s gonna stay it needs tweaking down

5 Likes

I think uncanny on the knives and swords needs to be capped below 75%

8 Likes

NGL I want to know what each melee weapon is supposed to be balanced around. Because part of the problem here is that jack-of-all-trades can’t handle things.

The dueling sword seems to be built around weakpoint hits allowing it to be a pocket anti-armor weapon, while retaining high mobility and dodging.

Given how ruinously effective it is at such, I would honestly propose making it less agile and worse at dodging (especially with the ‘formal’ stances to justify it not being too great on a ‘real’ battlefield lorewise). High mobility weapons have a lot of impact and it might be better to let it retain poke-power if it comes with the caveat that you have to rely on something else when dealing with hordes.

4 Likes

You know the game is a lil off when youre happy to see even a single crusher.

How?

1- Decide on what it’s role is. A high mobility, high defense, single target weapon that works well on everything but heavily armored elites.
2- As such, nerf carapace damage to 0. Or near it. Drop unyielding and flak damage by 25%.
3- Get rid of agile and tone down uncanny strike

2 Likes