Lately I’ve seen more and more people push for nerfs. Specifically the weapons I see people mentioning are:
Plasma
Revolver
Columnus
Kickback
Braced Autogun
Voidstrike Staff
Trauma Staff
Combat Axe
Heavy Sword
Power Sword
Venting Shriek
Assail
Do you agree with this?
My take is that with the coming itemization update there will probably be some rebalancing happening soon, which I’m fine with within reason, but now that FS are seemingly listening more than ever, should we really push them to do the same mistake Helldivers did?
This is a coop PvE game and if we’ve learned anything, nerfing the popular gear instead of buffing the low-performing stuff only leads to a more boring experience for everyone.
Some nerfs are needed for game balance if they trivialise enemies (otherwise we’re going to need to buff the enemies, which just nerfs the other Weapons)
As a Plasma Gun Vet, the only issue with the Plasma Gun is that its uncharged attack is too powerful, and this actively dissuades me from utilising its more balanced charged attack. Just nerf the uncharged attack’s cleave, damage and projectile size slightly… I think it will even out nicely. I cannot stress the “slightly” enough, though.
the funny thing about the helldivers subreddit is that you’d get all these people saying how weapons were op and that “x” needed buffs while “y” needed nerfs, but then you’d find out they’re playing the game on 3-4/9 difficulty… like, yeah, the game is generally stupid-easy when you play it on low difficulties lol
it also didn’t help that arrowhead didn’t actually know how to balance anything. to them, the playerbase using one weapon a lot means that only that weapon needs nerfs without even considering that you’d be at a handicap if you used anything else on higher difficulties.
Helldivers 2 in general should have been an extremely easy game to balance due to weapons/gear not having any leveling/scaling and enemies’ HP/Armor/etc not scalling with the difficulty either. How did Arrowhead manage to screw this up is baffling.
Not to mention that they do even less testing than FS, remember when Tenderizer was released, it was basically a downgrade to the vanilla Liberator? Or when the new armor with “Peak Physique” passive was not outright working?
Some things should be nerfed but the issue is getting NERFED the hell off the planet most rebalances that fatshark did are fine so far.
though imo the cooldown on survivalist is a bit high, 5 second is far too long thats a full elite wave maybe more in most games and you only get one proc off that.
This is PvE game, nerfs are “immesurably complex” things to ask for. I vote for buff back flamer (minus boost from zealots ability). And make plasma herting operator back as it was. Rest things are okey. Don’t argue with me, i don’t play it anymore, so all arguments are inessential for me.
There’s more weapons underperforming or not doing what they are supposed to so I’d rather see those changed first.
Also, changing how we get our guns and rebalancing them in the same breath is a really unwise idea. Give us a good amount of time to experiment with the new system and then see what stands out and balance accordingly.
Autopistol is dead and needs a complete rework, because it doesn’t have its niche. Single shot headhunter autoguns are useless with the current enemy density and overreliance on headshots in the game where enemies swarm you constantly. Lasguns are useless on Psyker and Zealot, because of poor class synergies (so it’s only good-good on Vet). Lawbreaker Shotgun is bottom top 3 weapon in the game. Thunder Hammers are a chore to use, only good in extra bosses Maelstorms. Autoguns lack identity in their variants, that’s why everyone is using Columnus. Helbores are hard to use on auric, 'cuz your team doesn’t always watch your back, and it’s about time we get scopes on it officially, so it’s not only good as long as your team is good. Tactical Axes fell off, they lack purpose and identity. All Ripper Guns need more ammo, because they’re overshadowed by Stubber in every way. Heavy Laspistol MKX needs a damage buff or higher armor penetration, because currently spamming shots with the other mark is more potent. Etc etc.
So many options to buff, rework or fix. Not to mention bad class talents, useless auras and keystones.
Well item update is supposedly giving weapons new blessings and some blessings like flechette are getting more tiers than just 3 so there is a good chance the current balancing might see total 180 flip.
Probably a good idea to wait for that to drop before doing anything radical buffing/nerfing wise.
A better topic than this should be discussing weapons on the whole. I’m not seeing these waves of people screaming for nerfs. I mean sure you get some occasionally ask for Plasma to chill out a bit, but that seems fair considering you can tap mouse button once and kill 10 shotgunners, maybe even through a wall.
But a discussion of which weapons over/under perform right now, that I can actually see being proper useful.
PVE games are entirely about their balance this idea somehow that pve doesn’t need balance so much is just plain silly to me.
just buffing the weak only multiplies the problem it fixes nothing. you end up having to buff hundreds of weapons then all the enemies adjust spawns and damage table cause no end of composite and meta issues you cant foresee OR you can just fix the broken weapons
edit- obviously if there are weapons that are broken as in too weak they do need buffs
You can buff the weak weapons while also nerfing the weapons that are obviously over tuned like plasma and revolver. Really, these weapons make you question why you would take anything else. I personally block plasma users when i get paired with them. A good plasma user makes it hard to even play the game, it shuts down everything.
The PVE excuse is a terrible argument. If it is only PVE, why have any difficulty option at all? Why not just have only sedition difficulty? Why not just buff all weapons to where they all one shot everything and they all have infinite ammo? It sucks having your favorite weapons and abilities nerfed, but they are usually necessary.
The latter comments here make it sound like I initially wrote don’t touch anything, which I clearly didn’t. I’m fine with it within reason and as long as they don’t nerf things to the ground a la Arrowhead.
As I did for Darktide in the past and I did for Helldivers 2, I’ll always advocate that balance should be applied to help a particular weapon achieve its intended purpose. If its not doing its intended job well, it needs a buff. If its doing it too well - and doing the job of other weapons, it probably needs a bit of tuning to keep weapons distinct enough from each other (so the weapon doesn’t end up in the pile of “why-use-this-when-that-does-x-job-as-well/better?”)
As for the specific items on the list… My initial thoughts would be:
Plasma Gun: Probably tweak the cleave value on the uncharged attack. right now there is very little incentive to use the charged shot when you can fire multiple primary shots that have substantial cleave.
Revolver: This weapon family’s greatest strength is in its crit shots (dealing upwards of 3x the damage to crit weakspot hits). If there is any balancing to be done to them, I’d lean more into the precision aspect of the Revolvers, and reduce bodyshot damage. This then makes the Bolt Pistol more competitive in terms of being a forgiving weapon that can dish respectable damage via bodyshots (as an exploding bolt should)
Columnus: If you see the numbers of this weapon and compare it to the others, you’ll see that it doesn’t make sense. If any balancing needs to be done to the Columnus, it would be a tweak to its weakspot and crit mulitpliers (they are the same across as infantry autoguns and the Columnus’s firerate more than makes up for its lower damage per bullet)
Kickback: Don’t really think this needs a nerf. It manage to finally become enjoyable to use after a bunch of buffs.
Braced Autogun: Don’t think it needs nerfs. If anything, the Graia and Columnus Braced needs buffs since there’s very little reason to use them over the Agripinaa.
Voidstrike: Don’t think it needs nerfs. It’s an artillery staff - give it range and space and it will wreck. Take that away, and the staff will struggle a lot since its very dependent on getting its charge up for maximum output.
Trauma: In a good space.
Combat Axes: This… this is probably one of the more difficult weapons to balance because they are so dependent on Brutal Momentum to be viable. Take that away and you’ll see a sharp drop in its usage. Combat Axes overlap Tactical Axes in purpose, so I imagine this would be a case of buff Tactical Axes to be more distinct in their role rather than nerfing Brutal Momentum (again).
Heavy Sword: Who is calling nerfs for these??
Power Sword: Personally, Power Swords (and Thunder Hammers) need a total rework on how the weapon functions. But this would be for a very long and detailed video for another time…
Venting Shriek: Why does this need a nerf? Is it because its the only ability that can prevent overloading?
Assail: Its fine.
I’m in the bucket that thinks Co-op PvE should have some balance because trivializing everything isn’t fun. I know some people really like the experience of destroying everything that comes their way, but the Tide games are built on skill and learning the nuances of the game. If a weapon/blessing removes that by being too powerful, the essence of the game goes with it.
