Let’s say it, there are several weapons that needs some love in order to see them used.
Weapons that seems, for me, useless:
For melee weapons, I don’t see this problem.
However, it seems that the devs always think about nerfing weapons, why not thinking about boosting several weapons ?
I think the other problem is there aren’t classes geared towards those specific weapons, however there are certain melee weapons where they could use more polish, like the thunderhammers long reset after using a charged attack. And some of the combo’s are just not great.
i regulaly use 2 of the autoguns (5 and 8)
the shredder and stub rock
havent used the other 2 in a very long time
well they have been byuffing more than nerfing i thought? only nerf i can recall is the power sword and its still s tier.
there was a bunch of buffs that got delayed back in december they still havent made it through
No offence, but why using infantry autogun ?
Less ammo, less damages, smaller magazines I don’t see why using such weapon instead of a braced autogun.
The stub revolver can be great. However the reload animation should be tweaked.
The shredder… humm… this is not really a weapon that can be usefull in a high difficulty levels.
i agree 100% instead of nerfs bring the meh and unenjoyable stuff on par with the fun stuff.
Thunder Hammer and Heavy sword needs serious buffs.
Rippergun needs a bigger mag size.
Kickback needs to be evaporating anything that isnt an ogryn on close/medium range.
Autoguns need custom ammo and extended/drum magazine upgrades.
Psyker needs a complete overhaul/buff. Right now you need to work twice as much for things other classes do naturally.
very reasonable question 
and to be clear i do use braced to, particulaly the mk 8 on my vet, my Zealot will often be seen running with a mk 5 or 8 auto
they are faster to swap to, faster to aim , faster move while aimed, more accurate, faster bloom recovery (though admitedly heavy spike on continued full auto!)
so i guess to sum up the autos are faster to get metal on the first target then they drop off . so for the ranged work my zealot is doing they fit better.
its not the autos are better its that on my zealot the way i play the auto is a better companion to the eviscerator than the braced auto’s
edit
its not a weapon that you can use to do the majority of your killing , it is top tier in ready speed, is one of the few guns to maintain usefull accuracy while running , does a shocking amount of supression and is effective at getting a fast stagger on main target.
its a niche weapon but the job it does do it does well. its the wrong foot weapon, you come around a corner with melee weapon out just too far away is a scab shotgunner and pack , if you want to swap to ranged kill that gunner and send everything else diving for cover while you slide into melee range… it might be your best option.
Because "thing work gud, must nerf’ is dev 101.
The dev loop is “What if we had an ABC? It would be fun! It would be cool!” Writes ABC “Oh no, players like the ABC. We need to nerf it so they use the other stuff that isn’t as good!”
And straight up, there’s a weirdness in the game, or was last time I played a week or two ago, where they nerfed ranged to keep melee viable, (reverse falloff, autofail dodge, speedbumps to reload and equip) but also nerfed w40K melee to like the chainsword and the thunderhammer to what? Keep the shovel viable?
Evis is okay, Powersword hits awesome but does everything up to it like movement and charge bad, and the 1h chainsword, thunder hammer, power maces, suck, and the chain axe is a joke.
Game needs not only leadership, but leadership that understands w40k.
Infantry autoguns are still very high DPS average, but can hit weakpoints easier and generally have better weakpoint damage. The real draw is hitting something 25m away without Veteran ult though.
And I’d like to see some weapon balance that focuses on buffs. I keep harping on the 3 variant system but what were they thinking.
Mk3 Cleaver has horde-only lights and the strongest heavy attacks damage wise, with a single and multi target profile respectively. Mk 4 has a bunch of stabs that do the same or worse first target damage as its opening slash that actually cleaves. The heavy 1 it shares animations with Mk 3 does way less damage. Since knives excel mainly in strong, high cleave and spammy lights this weapon is completely terrible to use.
The Mk 2 and 4 duelling swords are criminally weak vs Mk 5 for actually killing anything besides hordes, and are still middling horde clear weapons in terms of speed. They just feel unrewarding as hell landing a stab for like the same bodyshot damage as a Mk 5 overhead.
So many others, I’m sure people who have bothered with the catachan post nerf or the heavy sword could enlighten us as to why only one of those is good too. Also tons of obvious ones I won’t bother mentioning like ripper, lasgun, lucius, literally anything falling into the trap of ‘multiple weapons’ is actually the opposite feeling.
Catachans and Heavy Swords are very middle of the road on all stats and best utilized by a Zealot. A good heavy sword can do the invincible combat knife chicanery only do a lot more cleave and single target damage in the process. The Catachan Swords also have some really good blessing combos you can pull off. I wouldn’t say either the Catachans or Heavy Swords are better than other options, but they’re just as viable on all difficulties once you learn their language.
Catachan MK IV I think is generally considered the best overall. Heavy sword is actually kinda interesting and all the MKs have arguments for them. I haven’t seen the Zealot Discord come to an even vaguely clear agreement on which variant is best. That’s a rare case though, most weapons with different variants have a clear winner.
Much better accuracy, effective range, headshot, and crit multipliers. Don’t get me wrong Agrip brauto still mostly reigns supreme but some of the Inf Autos are very decent, could mostly just use a bit more ammo.
Regarding the original topic I think most people would agree those weapons need buffs (to varying degrees). Buffs and nerfs don’t have to be exclusive. Agrip brauto is just weirdly better than the other brautos in basically every category. It could at least do to have its hipfire accuracy reduced a bit for an example of something that could use minor downward tweaks. Zealot crit damage reduction feat is another good example of something that could probably do to be toned down.
Disagree for this… this feat is, indeed, really powerfull. But, it means that you need to continue to get critics or… you die very fast.
I would say that they need to correct the bug of crucian roulette, that is really needed. But with this corrected, the feat is correct as you get only a big protection if you are near teamates AND if you continuously does critics.
Nerfs and buffs coexist.
You can’t have one without the other nor can you just buff everything to overperform without massively affecting the difficulties.
If something overperforms, it gets nerfed to a reasonable level.
If something underperforms, it gets buffed to a reasonable level.
Chain axe is probably the weapon i’m most confused at what it wants to be. Like this weapon is living this inbetween state of being 2h weapon while literally having none of their advantages.
Horrible dodge distance without having powerswords 1 button kill everything on screen, crappy 1 target damage even with maxed damage/shredder roll, Defence stat that could just as well be combined with mobility and still has this odd jank in its light attacks.
Nearly every other weapon in this game i can see at least having some redeeming quality especially with good blessing rolls or with minor tweaks. This weapon however needs almost an complete redo on its identity.
Eh, vet can make any ranged weapon work.
The laspistol and autopistol are sleepers. Very strong at short/mid range against most enemies short of armoured ogryns and bosses.
Infantry autoguns are a bit whatever. They’re kind of OK at everything but great at nothing and I wouldn’t mind seeing them get a little buff. Headhunter autoguns are just a poor man’s bolter, but they do the job.
Melee weapons are the real issue IMO. There’s a couple of really bad ones that can only be useful with good blessings.
By “very fast” you mean nearly as fast as when you’re not running crit build at all? Plenty of people don’t run crit build on Damnation already, I don’t see how that qualifies as any kind of downside for crit build.
I do agree Crucian contributes a lot to pushing it over the edge, but Crucian allows for some silly fun build options (not all of which are even good), so I’d rather see it stay than crit build in its current form. Really nerfing the DR down from 75% to like 50-60% wouldn’t in any way kill crit build, just make it a bit less capable of straight face tanking things with little to no consequence.
Ah forgive me for repeating myself: the pistols, power mauls and a cpl others are supposed to have triple regen while moving, making them much more useful than in their current state. With Pistols you can vault and shoot too ?
I think the intention was to allow you to run’n’gun some, close the gap to melee, then to reload behind cover (I guess).
Currently there’s a logic reversal bug so it’s triple standing still.
If I had to defend the sharky devil on that one, most of darktide updates include 2-3 time more buff than nerf, all the weapons you quoted plus thunder hammer, heavy sword and twin heavy stubber and some other have already received quite substantial buffs (or should have but are bugged), like heavy stub got +25% dammage, most solid ammo weapon doubled their ammo reserve (even if that still a bit short).
but they does still need some love.
I’d love to see some revolver reloading improvements, like if you empty the fired cases and then have to cancel reloading immediately, then when you start to reload again you wouldn’t have to throw out the fired cases from the gun.
It works correctly if you let the animation reload the 1st bullet in to the revolver.
If I had a dollar for every time I read about ‘Stop nerfing, just buff everything’, I’d be Elon Musk now…
I really don’t know why people can’t understand why you simply CANNOT have only buffs in ANY game. That’s now how game design works, like at all.
I assume that it has to do with how much exposure one has with game balancing, playtesting and/or literal game design because it is pretty obvious in my eyes. Then again, I’ve been playing and playtesting games since 1996 so I’m pretty sure experience matters.
I won’t write a wall of text, I’m bored of writing this for the 1245th time but the bottom line is that you simply cannot just buff everything up, all the time. This creates power creep.
Google it up, learn about it, respect it. It has destroyed a LOT of games because it was left unchecked, both boardgames, competitive card games and videogames alike…
Now, the next question is “yeah, this means nothing because we are talking about a PvE coop game, my boomer dude”.
Been there, done that too many times too. The simple answer is ‘You are wrong. Again.’
Power creeping everything up in a PvE game leads to something you haven’t thought about. Boredom.
When everything is powerful and strong and amazing, players destroy everything in a few weeks and then they go around looking for their next thrill in a different game. Having all weapons wrecking face is bad, bad for the game, bad for the players, bad for ‘getting gud’, bad bad bad.
Your next rebuttal is going to be now “yeah, but there will always be a good weapon why not make the others good as well?”
The answer to this is “You are wrong. Again.” Nerfs are needed to change up the meta WITHOUT introducing power creep. Changing the meta keeps the players playing, makes people think about builds. You simply cannot buff weapons to make them meta as explained above. You need to nerf weapons to make people think about builds without powercreeping the hell out of the game.
Bolter needs a nerf just as much as Laspistol needs a buff. You simply cannot do only one or the other all the time. It’s simple but you need to wrap your head around that fact of game design and stop going for an entitled ‘buff everything approach’ all the time.
I never said that there should be no nerf at all.
But, usually I try to check what is said in a thread I open, just cause I want to read what others think and maybe it will make me think different after that. But, your post is just full of sufficiency.
So I will do like you… LEARN TO READ… I quoted few weapons, not all, that I think are not really effectives.
I have read people that explained why they think these weapons can be usefull, and I consider that. I will try to play with a laspistol on heresy, but I have doubt it will be seriously effective… but who knows…
Infantry guns, several explained the why.
If you are tired of repeating things, then don’t write… I did not approach you personally you know ? So calm down.
Also, what made me laugh is that, after saying you are tired etc… you end by being agree with the fact that the laspistol needs a buff… funny… cause it was the purpose of this thread, discussing about that.
About bolter, seriously… I have given up this weapon, too long to reload. I tend to agree with someone said that braced agri should be getting a sort of nerf. But bolter… this would not this weapon I will think for a nerf.
EDIT: final word… sometimes it is easier to buf 1 weapon instead of nerfing 14…
