Instead of weapon nerfs, why not bringing some love?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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No you wouldn’t be, calm yourself.

Ironic

Perfect answer to your drivel

No it doesn’t, you don’t even know what power creep is. The literal definition is releasing of NEW CONTENT that is better than the existing one WITHOUT balancing UP the existing one. Learn your definitions before attempting to sound like you know anything.

Wrong, what leads to boredom is having bad, unenjoyable garbage, one trick pony weapons like the Thunder Hammer so you are naturally inclined to play the MUCH more enjoyable, Antax with Momentum, Powersword and Crusher. I will never get tired slashing through hordes or smacking them with activated AOE. You know what people are getting bored of? The Thunder Hammer snagging on trash mobs or the Achlys being less enjoyable than the Grenadier Gauntlet IN MELEE because they had to “balance” it being slow and unresponsive. And noone plays these trash weapons. Your “muh balance” solution is to make everything equally unenjoyable instead of making everything actually fun.

A true metaslave argument. Not everyone is a cave dwelling min/maxxer spreadsheeting every single % and furiously checking reddit and youtube for “muh IMMORTAL ZEALOT BUILD #15”
No not everyone is enjoying that, you and 500 other tryhards who make the game their lifes work might but for the wide WIDE majority they just want to have a good time with their friends in a horde shooter.

No you dont. Thats a YOU problem. I dont needs Fatshark to nerf everything fun so people are forced to hope and pray for the correct RNG rolls, blessing and traits to fall from the heavens to make a build viable. Thx but no thx.

Literally one of the best praises everyone had for the game is that for once we have a bolter that ACTS and FEELS LIKE A BOLTER. But of course you need to nerf it. Cant have actually fun and enjoyable weapons in this game. We need a lame gimped bolter that we have to min/max hoping for good rolls and blessings, waste resources to upgrade it HOPING once again we get the optimal perks for it and then, make a specific feat build for it and then only then we should be able to enjoy it? Lmao

You’re the entitled one, the game shouldnt cater to sweatlords who play like their lives depend on it. Thats how you get a sub 1k playerbase.

The only thing this game has going for it atm is the great and smooth gameplay, if the devs listen to you thats gone and then its bye bye.

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22

How to be wildly incorrect about everything and angry to boot.

Nerfs and buffs go hand in hand. Deal with it. We didn’t stop playing Vermintide because weapons were balanced either through buffs or nerfs.

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You already typed the literally exact same thing before, still completely wrong.
You have zero arguments, stop trying to make the game worse.

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This suggests that you want to optimize the weapons for BALANCE instead of some nebulous (subjective) concepts such as FUN or REALISM, which I agree with.

I don’t agree, however, with the conclusion in that statement.
The only weapon that was universally discussed on these forums as OP is the powersword. You can maybe add to that list a couple of more weapons that may be overtuned (I wouldn’t know which), but that’s it.
You named, like, half of the range weapons in your first post that would need a buff, so, how is it not “easier to nerf 1 weapon instead of buffing 14” instead of what you said?

Additionally, if you are that interested in “having fun” with these underpowered weapons, you can always just play at lower difficulties and BAM!, your otherwise weak weapon can be fun.
There is no difficulty in the game where powersword is fun instead of OP.

Wierd team dynamic
25

another amazing argument, since there are people that can do Heresy/Damnation on rating 200 grey weapons, why dont we simply cut all the stats in half? I mean you can still play Uprising with them i guess?

Also the fun and realism arguments stem from these aspects:

Fun:
All weapons in Darktide are viable. Literally all of them can beat Damnation. I can beat Heresy pretty consistently with a Thunder Hammer, that doesn’t, in no comprehensible way, mean that the Thunder Hammer is a fun weapon to play. Its sucks. Its only quality is that it can kill bosses 15 seconds faster. In every other way, its a hassle weapon to play. From its non existing cleave that kills 2-3 Poxwalkers, to its abysmal light attack damage where you literally cant kill a single normal dreg or scab even though the light attack animation is a straight bonk on the head, to the zero cleave on charge that get stuck on anything, to the non existing AOE, to the animation lock when you do hit something with it. Its horrible.
Once again: You can still win with it, but its an unenjoyable weapon.

Realism:
As much as the term realism can be applied im sure you understand that unlike COD where everything is a firearm, Darktide takes place in the 40k Universe and there is a reason, a good one, why humanity developed Chain and Power weapons. To be better than the normal ones. “Balancing” a Powersword or Bolter with a combat shovel or an Autogun goes against every notion of 40k weaponry. The Power weapons NEED to be meta, and not a knife build. The only question that follows is how much better. And as it stands now they are almost all balanced well with notable exceptions like the Thunder Hammer, Heavy Sword, Achlys mace and a few more and the only thing needed is buffs.

As of now only 3.5% of the entire playebase has the Inquisitorial legend achievement. Thats for Heresy not even Damnation. If “muh Powersword” trivialized anything we should’ve at least hit 10% on Heresy don’t you think? Also the Powersword already got nerfed, according to the patchnotes cleave only goes as far as 8-10 poxwalkers and the damage fall-off starts a the THIRD poxwalker.

As it its now no weapons needs nerfs, some do need buffs, some need tweaks (Chain weapons should be able to cut lowly mobs in half) and the Psyker as a whole needs a rework/buff because he literally needs twice the work to do what every other class does normally without fiddling with peril.

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26

I am not 100% sure what this word salad is supposed to mean, but nowhere in that quote did I suggest any nerfs to any stats. I merely stated that if you really want to play an underpowered weapon, you always have an option to play a difficulty where that weapon is no longer underpowered, while you don’t have that option for when a weapon is overpowered.

Then, you proceed to move the goal post and tell me about exactly the things I said I wouldn’t want to balance weapons around: fun and realism.
The concept of “fun” is super subjective to the point where we would easily get to completely opposite conclusions, while the concept of “realism” in games is just a dumb metric for balancing anything except maybe simulation-type games where realism is exactly the selling point.

After that, you argue that Powersword is OK because X % of people have achievement Y.
I’m not even going to comment that nonsense, but I will say that nowhere did I suggest that Powersword trivialized anything, let alone the entire game difficulty.
I just said that it is basically the only weapon discussed as overtuned on these forums and that the logic behind “why nerf many when we can buff few” doesn’t make any sense since the opposite is true: “why buff many when we can nerf few”.

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When your argument for the underpowered weapons is “just play on lower difficulty” that’s exactly what you -imply- that we can always have weak/bad weapons since literally anything is viable on T1 and T2.

and then

you seem the one to be forgetting and flip flopping from one argument to another but lets see your latest position:

because its not 10% fun and 90% bad its more like 60% fun and 40% meh and that 40 percent needs the love instead of picking out the best weapons and cutting the legs from under them.

The OP of this thread is correct, some weapons need the extra oomph to make them better, more attractive. One example is the Autopistol. Nothing this weapon does is better than any MK of a Braced Autogun, with the only exception being slightly better mobility. Same with the Laspistol. How to fix them? Well thats for the devs to decide. They could allow us to pair them with melee weapons, they could bake in traits like Run’N’Gun to every “pistol” type weapon instead of having it as a blessing.

The whole point is how can we make weapons better instead of how to make the weapons that make other weapons look bad, worse, so they dont look that good anymore.

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Several weapons deserve a buff, however the power sword could use some further evaluation, as well as the Kantrael Mk 12 to a lesser extent.

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Sure you can. You just have to buff all the enemies as well.

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Well, I see this turned to a debate about buff or nerf. The question is not about not nerfing weapons that would need it (i think about braced agri by example or maybe the combat blade).
The question is about buffing weapons that are actually useless.

And when I read several post, I see posts against this idea that say also, at the same time, that there are underpowered weapons…
So the thread is about UNDERPOWERED weapons.

Several here said that all weapons are usefull. I really think that a laspistol or a shredder autopistol are not really what I could describe as usefull like any other weapon.
I don’t think making them with more damages is the solution, or they would look like any other weapons. Maybe a better magazine, or a better rate of fire… don’t know, but I really would like that we don’t have few weapons that are really effective.
When you listen to people, how many advice you to use an infantry gun? how many adviced to use a laspistol to someone that has difficulties with a difficulty level? I did not see one. If everybody was saying all weapons are great, just pick the one that you like, all would be perfect. But, here again, this is not what I’ve read.
Lot of people advice the flamethrower, the braced guns, the MG XII… Every advices I read turn around few weapons.
That’s why I made this thread.

So several rage here for… nothing. I perfectly knows that buff come with also nerfs. I also think that every one knows that. What I wanted to point is that devs are fast about nerfing a weapon that is OP. But bad weapons are never fixed by buffing them.
If you really think laspistol are so great, then use it. But I am curious to know how many of the ones that are against a buff for these weapons use them as main weapon and playin heresy / damnation ?

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There are various kinds of buffs. There’s the straight up numbers buff. There’s also improving quality of life on weapons that can constitute a buff. No one wants a instant “I win” button, that’s a specious, slippery slope strawman, but having more weapons that feel better or fun to use is a win for everyone.

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I’ve been using both a laspistol and an autopistol in heresy on my vet and doing just fine. I’m not going to pretend they’re as faceroll-easy as a bolter (that’s actually why I’ve been using them), but they’re far from useless.

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33

Better stagger, does better overall against carapace armor, faster refire on semiautos, some have have a useful specialy ability without a bleep charge up secondary, automatic versions hit much harder than laser full autos.

For me the choice between laser and an autogun works like this.
Laser = semis for sniping weakpoints and unprotected areas from relative safety, full autos for sustained suppression fire. Both are good when moving from fight to fight with little chance to reload.
Autogun = semi and burst for close-range head hunting, full autos for clearing groups or quick take ddowns. Both are great for when you expects lots of carapace-armored targets.

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This isn’t a versus game, fun should take equal if not slightly greater priority to balance.

The power sword is good because it does it’s job and it does it well, and it’s fun watching 6-7 zombies get torn in half with a swing.

That isn’t something I can say for any of the chain weapons, at least for the Vet.

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because some people push for less fun using the excuse of balance.

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What are you smoking when you type this out? Is it some medicinal stuff? Is there a UN nations charter that forbids buffs without nerfs? As i’ve proven using actual game statistics, there are no weapons in Darktide that trivialize difficulties, ERGO no weapon needs nerfs, i dont know how you cant get it through your skull. It should be an easy concept.

This is completely made up fever dream non argument. Everyone i know loves and plays this game due to the Warhammer 40k power fantasy aspect of it. People loved the Bolter because it acts like a bolter. People love the Powersword because it acts like a Powersword.
There is a reason everyone says Thunder Hammer sucks, (even big warhammer youtubers like the ItalianSpartacus) and that Psyker is weak. Just because sweats enjoy the suffering of min/maxxing everything to make stuff work doesnt make this an argument.

Nobody beats Damnation consistently except a tiny, miniscule minority, THE NUMBERS ON THE ACHIEVEMENTS PROVE THAT.
Now if you do, congrats GG, you’re in the absolute tryhard minority, go play Elden Ring.

yes it is fun, its SUPER fun slashing poxerwalker hordes, smashing them with the Crusher AOE, engulfing them in flames with the Flamer, mowing them down with the Braced Autogun. if you dont enjoy that, sorry to say, horde shooters arent for you.

Thats the funny part, i dont play samey weapons, i literally play every weapon, because unlike tryhards who need to win everything i like to enjoy variety and thats EXACTLY the reason i want to buff weaker stuff, to the level of the enjoyable weapons.

The one who doesnt know anything is you, you didn’t even know what power creep is lmao

" Power creep refers to the gradual unbalancing of a trading card game, video game or role-playing game due to the release of new content, leaving older content underpowered" .

Literally clueless.

My only “crusade” is to provide an opposing view so the game isnt catered to the 500 sweatlords that make everything so MEDIOCRE and BORING because they need to masochistically sweat over every % of the game to make something work, there are other games for people like that, in fact i would suggest some souls games. They are literally what you say you enjoy.

the only reason i an 1 other friend who didn’t abandon this game due to all the RNG are playing is literally the fun gameplay. Once this is gone the rest of the dwindling playerbase is gone and there are only people like you left.

Go to the steam reviews (which are at 43% btw). 90% of praise this game gets is due to gameplay. I wonder is that due to the Powersword or the Thunder Hammer? Anyone with half a braincell knows the answer.

Wtf are you talking about?

Again what are you trying to even say? I’ve literally said multiple times on this thread that ALL the weapons in Darktide are VIABLE, some of them are just not fun. The Thunder Hammer isnt a fun weapon on Malice NOR on Damnation. Its just an unfun weapon that needs buffs.

Sadly you cant.

Lmao

Mission failed, dont worry you’ll getem next time :rofl:

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38

Not useless, but not at the same efficiently level like other weapons… As you said, that’s why you used them. And the thread is about making them (and other weapons in same situation) usefull and, maybe, a way to experiement different gameplays.

You know, you can defend your point of view without any sentences like “Now, let’s blow up your 14-year old kid arguments” that sound insulting in my opinion.
Word like “crap” “smart-ass” etc. don’t make you looking smarter.
Actually, the only one that sound insulting in this thread is… you.

Now, back to the topic, maybe you could discuss with just arguments and respect others opinions.

Fine… so you agree about what I said. Several weapons are not really made for high difficulty levels. Off course, they can be used and can, somehow, be used like they were designed. BUT, and that’s my point, they are not even as effective as others weapons.
You said it yourself, when you say that we should use these weapons for level 1-2 difficulty. In fact, I would prefer that all weapons could be used and be equal in term of efficiency at ANY difficulty level. Off course, it doesn’t mean (I precise cause I see that you will jump on the bandwagon) that I want similar weapons.
By example, why not making laspistol with high damage like MG XII but with a shorter effective range like 4-5 meters ? Why not giving shredder autopistol larger magazine, like that they could be usefull for people that want to play with high mobility ?

I hope you don’t speak about this thread. Cause, from my point of view, it is exactly what you want. At contrary, I want that all weapons could be used and be fun at using them.
I am tired to see that we have the same few weapons used my the majority.
In my opinion, the only fun of this game is to play missions and be able to test different templates (feats / weapons). And so, that’s why I wanted to see if there are other people that thinks like me.

Thanks for the explanations. So, my question, do you prefer using infantry autogun over the others existing autoguns ? Or did you just pointed to the strong points of these guns ?
But your answer is fine regarding the utility of these guns.

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I rarely touch my vets transcendent agrippa braced autogun. Even if its his first really good ranged weapon of that teir.

The only time I take it out is when I want something to use as a SAW when paired with an ax for single targets and a grenadier build. Its okay for accuracy up close but the lack of real ADS makes the additional 23 rounds over the infantry version redundant at range. Can’t suppress if the bullets are landing in the next postal code.

And for me about the only weak point it can hit beyond 5 meters is the beasts. Maybe. On a good day. When Tzeech is hung over and pissed at Nurgle for cheating at the weekly strip poker game.

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I tested infantry autogun. It was fair, not as effective of my agri braced, but fair enough. I really think that they could get same ammo magazines as the braced autogun. But minus that, they are corrects as weapons.

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Regarding Inf Autoguns Agrip is good (can one head tap every shooter enemy on Damnation with good rolls and deals with specials fairly well. It’s a better HH in virtually every way), Graia is fine, Columnus is pretty bad.

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