Joining an already in progress Chaos Wastes run feels really terrible

As the title said, when you join a chaos wastes quickplay or join your friend that is already in a mission, there is no reason you should be punished with starting with grey weapons, no extra boons, and very little amount of pilgrim coins.
There is multiple ways of fixing this, such as being given a random set of boons and weapons based on the amount of coins that have been collected in the run by the players. Another way could be given the build the bot is using because the bots are shown to go up to the shrines and use them. Lastly you could at least just start with the amount of coins that have been picked up through the run so far, just be given the average amount of per pickup.
You shouldnt punish players for joining their friends already in progress. This feels terrible in its current state. Please look into this!

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Honestly, I don’t find it too bad. Once you find your first anvil you are on par with the other players. Additional boons would be nice; but, as many of them are trash, it’s not a big deal. You also have the option of joining only games that have not yet started.

Kind of makes me want to leave whenever I join an in-progress run. Especially if you show up at the end, you’re so gimped it just feels like you’re dragging the rest of the team down.

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How are you on par with the other players? Potentially, you can’t even use the anvil.

It is absurdly easy for fatshark to simply add the total amount of pilgrims coins added, straight into the players inventory. Baffles me they didn’t do that to begin with, since it’s such an obvious problem with matchmaking such as this.

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Most of the talents are trash. The weapon tier is the biggest difference. Once you have upgraded once, your power is equivalent to the other players.

I believe coins are shared equally between players when they are picked up. So if you are a solo player, you get all the coins (4 times as many as a player in a team of 4). If this is true and a new player gets coins just for joining a game in progress, then you are inflating the total number of coins available to the team and therefore the number of talents that the team can purchase far above what’s available for full teams that play from the start.

The existing system is fine. If you don’t like it then don’t use quickplay, just host.

It doesn’t matter if all talents were trash, it’s still bad design and has obviously been forgotten.

Secondly, you assumption is wrong, you don’t get 4x the coins if you are alone, so there goes that out the window. I imagine I read somewhere here before that you get a slight coin boost for each bot (and quick testing had me getting between 35-42 coins solo), but don’t quote me on that. Even if that was the case, the amount is negligible and should be totally inline, considering how trash bots are in this game, and especially in this mode.

Lastly, since most talents are so God damn trash like you are implying here, why does it matter so much to you that someone potentially inflates their total gold amount by what constitutes probably something around +5% gold across the entire campaign?

The concept of being against such obvious improvements is such an alien concept to me. It truly is baffling.

edit:

Yup, there it is.

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Seriously, I don’t notice a big difference if I start a game or join late.

Bots struggle on cata but are good enough for all other difficulties.

I wouldn’t hold your breathe waiting for fatshark to change things (they have been ‘working’ on improving the deed system for years). If the current system bugs you too much, just host or join games in the keep. Simple.

What you notice or not is completely irrelevant, because there is no reason for the game to withhold the coins (seriously, literally none).

I am fully aware of fatsharks track record of not following through with anything, but that is still irrelevant for this thread. The point of this thread is to give feedback on a specific topic. You repeating “if you don’t like it, host yourself” is completely pointless and pratically trolling.

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You’re trolling yourself if you hate quick play but keep playing it. Host your own game is a practical suggestion that solves your problem.

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Mike, your argument has degraded to saying the main matchmaking feature of quickplay, that encourages people to play because of the extra reward boost at the end, shouldnt be played. Actual nonsense on your part.

Also the thing that sets chaos wastes apart from normal adventure mode is the entire system of gaining the new unique boons to help you out in the run, to say they are trash and dont help is so far from the truth and goes against fatshark’s entire design of this mode. Sure some of them are not that helpful, but a good amount of them boost your power significantly. If you think that a green weapon anvil to boost your hero power up by 100 is more helpful than improving your temp HP generation, always having your block up while fighting, or significantly increasing your ability skill use, you are out of your mind. Why are you even playing chaos wastes if you think the main point of this mode isnt helpful, go back to playing back to basic deeds.
You could also provide some useful feedback to why you think the current state is better than my suggestion instead.

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No. Never said that. I use quickplay in the wastes all the time and am happy to do so. If I miss out on a few talents, it’s no big deal. OP is the one that thinks the quickplay system is trash. Not me.

Never said that all the talents are trash. Just most of them. There’s no guarantee that you’ll get a game changing talent in any given run even if you start from the keep.

I never said anything about upgrading weapons from grey to green. You’re just creating straw men. What I said was that if you join late, meaning very late in the game - like on the penultimate or final locations, then the most significant power increase you can get is upgrading your weapon (from grey to orange or red, because of the raw power boost plus trait and properties). Getting an extra talent or two at this stage is not likely to have an impact.

If you quickplay into an early level where green anvils are present then your argument that the new player will be at a great disadvantage is even more untenable. The later in the game you join the more valid an argument you have.

I play Chaos wastes because they’re fun. A couple of talents more aren’t gonna change that.

You’re suggestions are fine, and logical. I started a similar thread the day before Chaos wastes launched in which I expressed the hope that the host could spend shillings to upgrade bots so that they would level as players advanced through the wastes. But having completed many runs, I honestly think that the existing system is perfectly fine. It really doesn’t put quickplay players at a huge disadvantage; and, if they don’t like it is is easy to avoid. Sorry if you don’t like contrary opinions but that’s what forums are for.

Can confirm this is not true. You gain coins depending on the source of coins, difficulty, and a bit of rng. Amount of coin gathered is not affected by numbers of players.

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The problem is that you would not have the coins for the anvil in the first place. You will need 320 for a red exchange or 360 for a red temper. You will also have no boons. The game is not impossible without boons and low hero power, but it is pointlessly difficult. The first mission is usually a difficult slog, but the subsequent missions are made easier with boons and weapon upgrades.

“Additional boons would be nice; but, as many of them are trash, it’s not a big deal.”

Some are less than ideal, but most of them are useful and many more of them are fantastic. Furthermore it is absolutely a big deal. Chaos wastes is made fun with boons. Otherwise all we have are basically deeds and a handful of new maps; many of which reuse entire map sections from old maps.

My problem is that chaos wastes runs take a long time and my friends and myself are not always going to be able to commit to a run at the same time. When I join them I am generally far weaker than them. It’s harder and less fun when your friends are shooting lightning bolts and are practically unkillable while I am struggling to use my grey weapons. If we are only 1 or 2 missions in; we just restart. It doesn’t need to be that way.

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Thanks for the correction.

The way I see it, both sides of the discussion have made good points.

I suggest an easy, middle-way fix: have new players start with weapons whose rarity is based on the current step of the expedition: white for the first mission, green for the second, blue for the third, orange for the last, red if they happen to join in the arena.
This way the hero power is taken care of (really, it’s the math of the game, the less it’s tinkered with, the better).

The game memorizes obtained properties so no save scumming would be involved, and players who joined from the start would still have (generally) an advantage.

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I feel like this is the easiest solution, just to ensure you are actually getting something. Getting only coins at the final arena wouldn’t really help anyone anyway.

Unless you blow everything on boon shrines trying to recreate the godlike goated build you once managed to get but instead get random stuff that doesn’t even work together. cough cough
FeelsBadMan

Technically, this is wrong: Bots in Chaos Wastes - #4 by FatsharkLev

Practically, the effect is negligible and may be changed: Bots in Chaos Wastes - #19 by FatsharkLev

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OP is right, joining an in-progress run is very bad.
Sure, you may be able to get reds before the final map, but you’ll still lag behind in boons compared to those who were able to get them beginning from the first map, including map-completion bonuses, meaning that even if you catch up in weapons, you’ll still be weaker than those who came from the beginning.

That sounds reasonable I think. Players could also start with the power-level the bots had prior to joining which would be dependent on what the host has done. It is strange that a new player joins even weaker than the bots.

Hehe, that’s why I said generally. Have done more than an arena with a white weapon. But even then, you usually get to have at least a red, and the game averages the HP. Some of the boons offset the lack of hero power somehow, and you likely bought at least a miracle for the party. Still better than having a random join at the end with just the hero power to fight.

Plus, I almost forgot:

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu