Hey guys, since last patch and the nerfs of MFB Javs are by far the strongest and most used rangeweapon by all elf classes.
When and how do they get balanced?
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…While i do agree the javs could use some tuning, i´d still state that its a terrible reason to do it simply because “most elf classes use them”.
I mean, two of the elf careers are melee specialists whom will always definitely gravitate towards ranged weapons that kill specials and have ammo sustain, the javelins simply happen to meet those requirements and Moonbow was nerfed outa the race. Sister of thorns? Pretty much also a melee career at this point so same story goes, and her staff has indirectly eaten massive nerfs too, meaning its not competing either.
Then we got waystalker…waystalker just runs whatever she wants and javelins happen to be a solid option so there are undeniably users there too.
…
Now, should javelins be nerfed simply because the javelins happen to be the best option for three careers because all three have the same requirements for ranged weaponry and all other options got terrible/worse ammo sustain or got nerfed to oblivion?
I’ve seen many people arguing how easy it is to sustain Longbow ammo and claiming how meaningless Moonbow is because of that. I gently disagree with the argument, because of the fact that the vast majority of people are using Jav instead of Longbow on 3 of the Elf careers these days. Infinite ammo definitely is a thing, and while Moonbow was rebalanced to refelct it Javelin avoided that so I’d say it’s natural that people are finding Javelin the superior compared to MB or LB.
Javelin’s high stagger and cleave can be seen as it’s own feature as that’s the one thing that differentiates it from Longbow besides ammo issue, so I think we should keep it. What is troublesome atm is the spamming, which I believe should be exclusive to ammo-limited weapons. Give Javelin a bit of charging time, maybe a bit less than that of Throwing Axes, and I think it would be alright.
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I do think there is value in the argument that Moonbow is too similar to longbow and too gimped in on itself to really justify using it, it will remain so as long as it needs to headshot to barely work well.
However that doesnt affect the longbow vs Javelin debate in the slightest.
And as a matter of facts…those are indeed different weapons although some overlap exists, and the merits present in the javs do fulfill the needs of the melee careers well while also bringing some extra´s to the table. Longbow can do the specials killing but it is undeniably more punishing to miss shots or bodyshot with it, and it doesnt handle density well either.
So well, given that Javelins are the present best option for those who wana focus on melee it really is natural that 3 outa 4 elf careers go for it, those guys belonging to that category and all.
…
That said, i do think you got a point in it being a good idea to impose some more downsides on the javs to compensate for their strength, such as a bigger downtime or etc.
Yeah legend QP is just insert elf maining javelins taking about 40 to the rear by the end of the game, mowing down hordes of maulers and monks and 3 specials per javelin. But this doesn’t apparently concern some of the more bearded necks on this board its not insert mod difficulty with a single digit player base, so whatever.
The only nerf I want to see in the Javelin is to its friendly fire damage.
Personally, I’d prefer seeing a Throwing Axe rebalance before a Javelin rebalance, considering the Moonfire Bow just got nerfed big time. Make Throwing Axes reload as fast as (or faster than) the Javelin and make its throwing trajectory a bit straighter to make it easier to aim.
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Legend QP is and always has been a joke post the point where powercreep made elf longbows able to 1hit - bodyshot stormvermin. A long time that is.
…heck it was kind of a joke even before, given that Manbow&boltstaff could do it before then too.
And post the recent hagbane changes, even this damn bow can oneshot a stormvermin if its a headshot, the bloody AOE bow can oneshot an armored elite. And this sort of stuff is by no means whatsoever exclusive to the elf. I repeat, Legend balance basically does not exist.
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Even bots work on Legend. lol
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Right and theres a difference between running a build to cheese regular enemies and just bowling over multiple elites per shot with what is essentially rapid fire bolt staff projectiles that don’t need to be charged. Considering all the downplaying of this weapon and moonbow pre change you did its pretty transparent.
Nobody wants your elf toys ruined, just reeled in to not be completely out of whack stupid.
A stormvermin 1HK longbow build is the same joke gameplay as the javelin that is completely stupid to say out loud. Almost as dumb as claiming that some difficulties are so easy you can’t touch weapons that make the game auto pilot there. Ones that still make content above that ridiculously easy because they’re that stupid. That would be javelins.
Just find a reason for the first javelin to reload that quickly, or them doing better damage than throwing axes without falling off like them while penetrating 3x the enemies and flying over twice the speed comparing an uncharged throw to a jav with almost no arc. Or staggering every enemy except monsters. Plenty of overtuned nonsense to change here.
What are the indirect nerfs to the staff?
The previously most powerful damage build for the staff was using the old talents for crits + bleed stacking. The way it worked was that cast of the staff only consumed one crit-stack but sent out 4 thorns, each with 100% crit chance.
And each of them stacked barrage + applied the bleed which didnt seem to have a stacking-cap individually. It was so potent it could shred chaos warriors with a couple of headshot casts, and with a strength pot, monsters.
Then if wanting less reliance on crits then one could just use the “hit things for power” …forgot the name. However, all these talent components are basically gone. Thus the staff has been nerfed.
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It has DoT in the description but it didn’t actually have any without pre change atharti’s delight. 5s of bleed x 4 stacks at the tick rate was a bit insane (most specials died in a couple ticks after taking a crit volley) but they could give it some DoT back. Killing armor with the staff is terrible, it takes like 4 full bursts of headshots to kill a cata weapon rat. Unarmored damage is fine.
Atharti’s still does work on ranged attacks despite the description so as long as you can apply blackvenom with Lingering Blackvenom or Tanglegrasp Thicket, it will shred through elites.
It’s strong in legend but i doesn’t stand out in cataclysm like moonbow used to imo
Javs are by far the strongest rangeweapon for Elf now (doesnt matter thats an other kind of usage compared to Longbow). Before Patch MFBow and the Staff were alternatives. Now I just dont see anything comparable.
So whats your suggetions FS should do? Nerf the Javs or Buff other range weapons? And If so which ones?
I strongly hope it will not stay like this…
Other ranged weapons are mostly fine, its not something that can be fixed without waystalker getting reworked anyway. Which is unlikely to happen as it seems.
But as for the weapons, Moonbow needs a rework to be something other than “longbow for people with bad aim”.
Then for the Javelins, more downtime in the form of a slower reload and slower walking speed while reloading would probably do the trick. Pulls them down to “use when needed” rather than “use”.
The reload time for a single javelin needs a huge nerf, its a worse reload mechanic than the throwing axe because of the delay between each individual javelin but just grabbing 1 is zippy fast. Which is what lets you chain-stagger a couple CWs easily just throwing 1, reloading 1 and repeating.
Cleave is also messed up, piercing multiple maulers with a ranged shot should be a niche of the bolt staff and shotguns. Bring it in line with the throwing axe (so roughly 1/2 the current). Then have them lose 40% of their damage to distance like throwing axes, so you actually pay a price for the cheesy stagger.
what? XD moonfire bow has worse breakpoints than longbow so you need better aim for headshots indeed 
. Sure if you not want to onehit all the specials you can have bad aim and bodyshot.
Not that I disagree Javs could use to be tuned down in a number of regards, but your frequent reference to throwing axes concerns me. Most people rightfully consider throwing axes a meme tier weapon, so instead of trying to drag Javs right down to their abyssal lows, ideally they would both be adjusted to a mid point somewhere between each one’s current performance level.
Just trying to bring Javs in line with current throwing axes would straight murder them.
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I’ve been playing a lot of Throwing Axe Slayer the past week and I don’t think they deserve the disrespect they get. Of course they are competing with MWP RV but that’s a whole other issue.
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