Javelin and trowing use to have the same damage, with trowing axe having more falloff.
javelin got than nerfed into oblivion, and the trowing axe got buffed.
Any possible javelin buff? Like just copy and paste the trowing axe stats on the javelin
Keep in mind that Javelin is also a good melee weapon, but Axe doesn’t have melee. They aren’t supposed to have literally the same stats, there should be difference.
With that said, I agree that Javelin has been overnerfed and recent Axe buff was unnecessary.
Javelin (like Moonfire) is genuinely great with Handmaiden, Shade, and SotT: a solid power buff from the Hunter trait, hits the special breakpoints you need, staggers Chaos Warriors, spams freely, and gives you serious mobility plus melee damage. It hasn’t been “nerfed into oblivion”; I swap between Javs and Moonfire on Handmaiden quite often, leaning Javelins only because headshots return ammo and let you spam heads indefinitely in certain boss fights like with trolls.
But this “buff” to throwing axes gutted their best trick on Slayer. They used to benefit from Trophy Hunter stacks, which gave the damage to clear body-shot breakpoints on specials with ease. Take that away and the buffs it was given don’t come close to making up for it, so for Slayer this is a nerf dressed up as a buff. The intent seems to be an unlimited-ammo option for Ranger Vet… except he drops ammo, so what’s the point? I guess to make it easier to use and more accessible to newer players since it has a smoother arc, and reloads a little faster.
Pre-update, I used throwing axes on Slayer 90% of the time. They took effort to master, but with Trophy Hunter they picked off specials effortlessly mid-horde and headshot-spammed Chaos Warriors and monsters just like Javelins. Now they’re slightly worse, still a decent special killer, but the thing that made them shine is gone because they’ve simply made them easier to use but worse at hitting breakpoints on Slayer.
Also, I don’t believe throwing axes and javelins ever had the same damage. Throwing axes always had more damage, lower penetration and a slower arc with greater damage falloff. They also don’t have melee, reload in a cluster with a slow wind up almost all at once rather than one at a time. They’re just different weapons, if you wanted the Javelins to deal the same damage, then you’d have to take away all it’s other advantages and practically make it a clone of throwing axes, and I don’t think anybody would really like that.
The Javelins are still easier to use, and hit headshots well. You can use them on all 4 elf careers, which allows you unlimited ammo on a secondary ranged weaopn which always pairs nicely with Hunter for a decent fairly consistent damage buff.
The throwing axes are only available on 2 careers, and they’re still more of a meme on Ranger Vet. It’s main utility was offering Slayer a way to deal with specials, and that’s been nerfed by taking away it’s synergy with Trophy Hunter. However, it’s a good bit more accessible now to newer players with the extra shots and smoother arc.
They never had the same damage but I agree javelin needs a buff. Javelin needs 37% power vs to one-shot HEADshot a packrat meanwhile throwing axe only needs 30% power vs to one-shot BODYshot a packrat. This is ridiculous. Throwing axe also gets to one-shot bodyshot ratling/fire rat and oneshot headshot stormvermin and plaque monks. None of which javelins can do.
Melee on javelins are near useless and I would MUCH much prefer the uncharged throw that throwing axe has. Cleave on javelin is literally half of charged throwing axe (2 vs 4 fanatics). Damage falloff range is literally worse than throwing axe after the buff.
I feel like I’m being gaslit when people say throwing axe is a worse version of javelin when it’s clearly the other way around.
“They’re just different weapons, if you wanted the Javelins to deal the same damage, then you’d have to take away all it’s other advantages and practically make it a clone of throwing axes, and I don’t think anybody would really like that.”
Yes actually, I would prefer javelins become a literal clone of the throwing axe.
The javelins are weaker in terms of raw power. That means less damage, cleave, and hitting worse breakpoints.
Throwing axes are not a “worse version of javelins”, and after the recent buff, they’re arguably better. Both of them stagger enemies, but the javelins are still faster and easier to reload and get head shots with, and I do think the melee is useful. It has a lot of single target dps and provides a useful backup for easily dealing with lone trash that interrupts your shooting.
Also, I’m not a fan of the current throwing axe changes either. I think they were perfectly fine beforehand.
Though, I’ll admit, the advantages of one over the other do depend on your preferences, and if you’re good enough to reliably get hits.
I think the weapons shouldn’t be identical, I like the Throwing axes having two firing modes instead of melee. I like the javelin melee option. I like how it was before the update, where throwing axes were harder to hit stuff with, required a bit more reloading, but gave you power and damage; while the javelins offer more mobility, speed and accuracy.
I would be okay with upping the raw power of javelins while not making them a throwing axe clone if it came at the expense of some reload speed. In my weapon tweaker mod I’m working on, what I’d really like to do is return the javelins to their pre-nerf power, but make them have limited ammunition instead, and require ammo pickups, and have a slower reload (where the reload would be more like putting rounds in the mag instead of regenerating ammo; still functioning the same but with a limited ammo pool)
IIRC, back when people were talking about Javelin nerfs, I felt the solution could be some combination of or either limiting the ammo or making it harder to spam them. Instead, they’re still fairly easy to spam, but are just weaker now. I would still consider that balanced, but it’s not the optimal way to balance.
While I think that jav was a bit overnerfed, imo Jav shouldn’t have breakpoints of Throwing Axes, because Elf ranged weapons are very different to Bardin’s.
To keep it brief:
On Slayer, it competes with a secondary melee pick, which is a big deal.
On RV, it competes most directly with:
- Handgun - with 1-Shot BodyShot special + sv/bestigor bps, plus easy long range accuracy and hitscan projectile
- Crossbow - which matches TAxes for 1 SBS vs ratling/assassin (can’t bodyshot hook), but has better headshot bps vs elites + easier long range
There is a few more things to consider, but I want to avoid creating too much of an essay.
If you compare it to elf, 1 SBS bps vs Ratling/Warpfire/Hook is NOT reached by ANY ranged weapon EXCEPT for Shade’s Volley Crossbow.
That alone imo, would make it a bad (balance-wise) addition to Elf - an INFINITE ammo weapon with high cleave (good vs disablers in hordes, among other things) and BODYSHOT breakpoints vs most specials, I think could contend for the no. 1 common pick, especially on HM/Shade.
So, on RV, you have infinite ammo for all weapons and other 1 shot-bodyshot special sniping weapons. On Slayer, it competes with melee as a secondary.
On Elf, I think it’d become a spam weapon vs specials/elites that’s easy to use and very obnoxious to everyone else (exactly as was the pre-nerf jav).
Current Jav isn’t spammed at everything because it severely lacks cleave and damage vs elites.
Imo Jav has an okay spot in balance right now - in comparison to the Longbow, you get the same special sniping bps on close range, worse vs long range (+more difficult), and much worse vs elites - if you play as a more melee-oriented build, these flaws are somewhat excusable.
In exchange, it’s more spammable (infinite ammo), has high stagger, very good dps vs monsters w/melee and actually good movetech.
I think it’s a solid choice on HM (very good on standard Twitch), and alright on Shade.
Side note: That 20% PvsMonster/Skaven for bps on Jav matches very well with its melee dps vs monsters - that’s +20% damage vs all monsters and +40% vs skaven monsters.
Before the recent patch, I’d say it was pretty much the case, so maybe you saw some old takes, or maybe some people still haven’t given TAxes a try on this patch.
I do think javelin breakpoints shouldn’t be as good as throwing axe especially on bodyshots but it should be closer to the throwing axe on headshots. They should just increase the headshot multiplier a little without changing the base damage. Would be nice if they also increased the cleave because right now it can’t cleave through a marauder at all.
I do like how differently Javelin plays from Longbow. In principle, I’m not a fan of infinite ammo weapons. In practice, though, I like Jav and TA more than the way Ranger, Waystalker, and crit-based builds regen ammo. (Not that I don’t play and enjoy those.)
On Legend, I’m satisfied at where the breakpoints are on Jav and TA.
So I don’t have much to say, except …
My son used to constantly pick off distant Specials with TAs. And don’t talk to me about Chaos Warriors … He stopped playing TA Slayer because he got bored.
At yet, with Javelins, the only safe place is behind him. 
That’s odd. I never play elf, but used throwing axes frequently pre-update because people would claim they are bad, and I like to showcase them being otherwise.
Still, I almost never play the elf, but when I do, javelins are just easy to use even without much practice. You may not like the breakpoints, but throwing an extra one to get a special doesn’t cost you any ammo, so I’d consider it balanced. I’d prefer they balanced it by limiting the ammo and reload speed, then giving it the full pre-nerf powered shots.