Dunno I was engaging with the point you made. You said it’s broken, I said it’s not.
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Yeah broken isnt the exact wording I should have used, but it seems badly implemented.
The devs consciously made the choice to make these “catcher” specials work this way. The assessment that they would be far less dangerous if they didn’t work this way is true, and is probably WHY the devs made it this way.
There is counterplay so I don’t think it’s badly implemented. They make a pretty distinct sound for a reason and dodging nets isn’t a huge deal, you just have to be on your toes. With 1 in a 1000 games exceptions, trappers always make their sounds for me, so I either position so I can see them coming or I dodge by sound knowing it’s coming. Works for me at least, and I appreciate that they add depth to the gameplay.
Removing their ability to shoot through enemies would in my eyes remove depth from the gameplay because situations where I have to play differently to deal with a trapper no longer exist.
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So you’re telling me, The randomness of a trapper WHO can come from any direction WHO actively breaks the rules to become more “threatening” would have less depth if they couldn’t shoot through enemies?
Thats crazy, Its actually awful implementation, such a small change would literally do nothing except give you more ways to play around a trapper. The depth you speak of is literally just dodge on audio from a net, The suggestion I give allows you to not only give you more ways to deal with a trapper but also give you more counterplay. (example: Line of sighting the trapper with a bulwark/crusher. Fighting a monster put yourself in a potentially worse spot to the monster but you are avoiding the trapper to give yourself more time), The fact you said it would remove depth is severely incorrect.
I spam play Auric HISTGs or Maelstroms, and a large chunk of players I see get trapped have nothing to do with them getting netted through monsters or ogryn enemies.
How exactly do you play differently vs a trapper if this change was implemented. It only affects the interaction between 2 enemy types, Monstrosities and Ogryn enemies.
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There is no rule that says they can’t shoot through enemies, evidently. I fail to see where you’re getting randomness from, either. They spawn with a sound and you can hear via 3d sound where the trapper spawned and roughly how far away she is. On some maps that can be quite tricky to figure out because of pathfinding, but it’s not a matter of RNG at any point.
To quote what I actually said:
Your suggestion removes depth because now counterplay boils down to “shoot the trapper when you see her” because she can’t hurt you unless direct line of sight exists. There’s less depth to this than positioning differently so you can ensure a dodge or ensure line of sight. Kiting a boss so the trapper can’t get you is not only not really ever gonna happen (because you’d just kill the trapper instead because she has to be visible to be a threat to you), but it’s also probably not even gonna work because trappers move faster than attacking bosses by a multitude.
I think presentation is a big issue of what causes the incorrect assumption that shooting through enemies is self-explanatory bad design. If the trapper was to shoot out something that doesn’t look like an open net, but rather like a harpoon that can arc, nobody would make this complaint. Just like how hook rats were rarely specifically complained about like this insinuating it’s self-evident, despite doing the exact same thing as trappers, sticking their hook through chaos warriors.
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Through specifically ogryn enemies yes, and monstrosities, I do not care about the horde.
The option would still exist for if players would want to do that which in turn adds depth.
and I said buys you time, from the trapper if you are reloading or needing to decide what direction to go depending on what the monster is, what room you are in.
I don’t understand the net thing, It doesnt matter what it looks like if its coming out of a crushers chest. Hookrats aren’t trappers and shouldnt hook you through chaos warriors in the first place, just like how trappers shouldn’t net you through bulwarks and monstrosities. Sure it makes them more “dangerous” but it aint fun. I’d rather have a death from a trapper thats actually my fault over a BS net because fatshark decided that trappers would be too weak if they had to move 3 meters to walk around ogryn enemies or monsters to get line of sight.
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Repeating myself from the other thread, the only real consistent not-fun BS part is the nets through solid objects well after you dodged, and that seems to disproportionately affect ogryns, probably due in large part to their crappy dodges (linger+) and IDK, server vs client lag and authority. I’d argue a couple of things like that should err in the client’s favor.
Otherwise, pretty much every solution offered here means they may as well remove the trapper from the game. By the time “had to move 3 meters to walk around ogryn” she’s already dead.
Change net to a stun dart that a teammate has to remove from you, does that change things?
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yo I found the guy who said to remove trappers!!!
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In all seriousness they would be like 5% weaker, Like I said earlier I spam play Auric damnation/ Auric maelstroms. I see so many players get trapped and so many of them are not fighting monstrosities or ogryn enemies.
IT would Barely affect the main player base, and if trappers aren’t an issue for you congrats, this change won’t matter to you.
Still requires line of sight to make sense.
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By 5% do you mean 50%+? Sure, go for it, it would also require buffing the trapper’s HP a significant amount to compensate for lack of threat, and overall that would be a
Quite frankly, PEBKAC (a.k.a. skill issue most of the time, and I hate saying that). Situational awareness, positioning and target prioritization are a key component of *Tide games, it shouldn’t be diluted further. These are skills people can and should hone, and it’s very rewarding to do so hence the appeal of *Tide games and even in other games like Battlefield. That 3m required repositioning can often be done by the players too, and isn’t
OFC it would it would affect me as it would dumb down the game significantly (not sure you wanna open this can of worms).
Fine with me, have the trapper dodge L/R and fire dart through the cracks like we have had to do, and don’t have biggies stack so much into each other (which often benefits players btw). It’s probably a pipe dream though as that would likely require a lot of back-end changes, so the “compromise” is the current situation with some of the BS that can be trimmed as I mentioned above.
P.S. There’s also a related point here about density and cranking it up as a difficulty boost, power creep, balance etc., but that’s for another thread and there are tons already.
Wouldn’t that even make the special more inconsistent? So now I have to consider WHAT is blocking the trappers line of sight to determine what or what she can’t shoot through? This doesn’t seem like the winning recipe for improving the specials consistency.
None of this would occur. You’d just shoot the trapper every time because the trapper is forced to appear in your line of sight and come within 8 meters. The considerations no longer matter
So you would like to be trapped through monstrosities and ogryn enemies because you feel more rewarded? that if you dodge the net through the wall of carapace you succeeded in a garbage mechanic thats inconsistent and changes the expectation of other specials/elites it makes you feel more accomplished?
Sometimes there are just 30 ogryn enemies and 3-6 trappers, and this mechanic just feels truly terrible when you just want to control the ogryn enemies and then have the option to play around the trappers instead of constantly spam dodging on audio cues.
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At least I know trappers can’t shoot through the wall of carapace and I can just watch to see if the trapper is going to the left or right of the elite spam. Better than just spam dodging praying the net won’t yoink you through the wall of steel you cant see through.
If you can’t handle understanding the 2 enemy types that trappers can’t shoot through I doubt these same people wouldn’t be able to make a competent build. There are more things in this game more complicated than 1 special not shooting through 2 enemy types.
This tells me that you don’t play the higher difficulties where s**t is hitting the fan and you have to deal with 3 trappers, 1 monster, a whole horde. You’re talking like your 1v1 a monster with 1 trapper in the room.
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There’s a sound cue, you can dodge slide after it and it’ll consistently dodge the net so long as you have space. There’s no praying or randomness involved because you know a trapper exists on the playing board so you position so you can actually do this
Well, I feel the same way about you for what it’s worth. Not knowing how to dodge trappers is really the hallmark of someone who hasn’t played much yet.
I’ll leave it at this and tell you that I’m glad that Fatshark has 20k hour playtesters to help decide on game design like this, rather than people who think dodging a trapper is random.
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This is just wrong when there are more than like 2-3 trappers in play when you are in a tight situation, I can’t believe people would rather get trapped through enemies that you shouldn’t get trapped through, than having the mechanic slightly changed to require line of sight.
Buddy I have 1,600 hours and I am +250 on vet and psyker, +450 on zealot and +530 on ogryn.
Trappers aren’t random you’re right, and it’s rare I fall victim to getting trapped through carapace walls, but when your in these tight situations can you really be expected to make space so you can dodge 3-4 times from multiple directions. Ontop of that you might dodge into a net thats aimed at a team mate through the whole thing. It’s just frustrating and since it happens not that often that is why I made the title of the post QOL change. Instead of trappers need this rework ASAP.
Just saying it would be alot better and less BS for a trapper to require LOS through specifically through ogryn enemies/monstrosities VS the current iteration.
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Because these are the only options and solution? There’s more to it than just (spamming) dodges. There’s dodging them, shooting them before they’re a threat, ignoring them till you need to deal with them, making space to deal with them etc. etc. etc. I shouldn’t have to explain this to someone with your stated hours.
Requiring LoS would likely require a very hefty HP increase or something that would likely result in a much greater threat to the player in the end in most scenarios, otherwise, again, it will trivialize the trapper as a threat. A bit like the dogs are almost a non-issue right now since you can force-push them with any class and any weapon. But funnily enough, you still see people (ogryns) trying to dodge doges when they shouldn’t and get pounced.
Maybe you’re onto something though, suggest that and I’d agree with you.
I can appreciate exaggeration for emphasis, but you’re not helping your case here. I can’t remember the last time I saw more than 2 trappers, maybe they did too fast? Come to think of it I can’t recall OTOH buggy stacked special spawns being trappers, seems like it’s always bombers, flamers and snipers; weird. The stacked twin or twin-twin tox bombers…ugh.
Random spam dodging on audio cue is the only option? If so then def a PEBKAC. See my earlier mention about prioritization and stuff, again.
Yeah it’s a good amount, but seems somewhat contradictory to what youre saying and you’re not helping your case with:
Because that’s kinda what it sounds like from what you’ve said. You’re attributing too much randomness and “spam dodging” when there are other complementary and preceding tactics to employ that may or may not require dodging.
Sometimes RNGesus can screw you, sure, but usually it’s the player who screws up, and people looking to prevent being punished for mistakes via dumbing-down or artificial and external means is not good for the game.
Too many times people screw up and blame the game for their own screw ups, which is not to say the game isn’t sometimes at fault, it absolutely is and it doesn’t feel good to succumb to BS, but not as much as people claim based on my observations.
I’m intrigued by your idea to require (full slot?)cLoS and buff HP by, what was it? 2-3x? When there’s a rebalancing overhaul and probably a power-nerf then this might make more sense.
You can try to do this, but sometimes trappers can just get through your focus fire and get within range, then you’re screwed especially on CIVIs. Playing as ogryn Im afraid to pull walls of carapace for my team to deal with just because trappers can get through since my team isn’t 100% reliable, and sometimes my ranged damage isn’t enough to kill the trappers before they slip into the wall of steel.
80% of the time I dodge the net, but the 20% just feels like im getting cheesed because 20-30 ogryn enemies is too much to hold as well as dealing with trappers mixed in, I just want the game to feel less BS when it comes to specific situations like this. Make the trapper pathfind around the wall of carapace im holding and attack me from behind or the side. Is it that hard to make the trapper do that?
Then you don’t play Auric missions? 2 trappers is like the norm, 3-4 is a little on the high side. but ive literally seen 6 at once. I was doing a brute conscripts and I was literally holding all the ogryn enemies and I had to dodge 3 trappers in a row within like 4 seconds. My team wasn’t dealing with them and I would appreciate if I could, you know block the trappers with the ogryn enemies im holding?
Im surprised you havent been in a situation where trapper nets are coming from behind and infront, sometimes above. You kinda have to guess which one is coming at you first, and it can be very frustrating.
again you mention spam dodging but its more of an educated guess in these scenarios where you are bogged down and against multiple trappers. if I KNEW the side of hallway has ogryn enemies was a spot where I couldn’t get trapped from, that would be great info to have when fighting multiple trappers in this scenario.
These scenarios are so specific and so niche that a trapper change would barely matter, it would only affect these situations where you’re fighting multiple ogryn enemies or monsters. if you want something truly challenging thats not trapper BS. Havoc exists with its small shooters that can delete you in 0.32 seconds.
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Ideas I have for trappers are:
- Ogryns and Bosses should block Trapper LoS.
- Hordes should get kocked down or staggered by Trapper projectile
- Trappers projectile should adhere to level geometry i.e. no more shooting thru stuff
- Fix Trapper sound ques. Iv noticed on Console the sound has far more dropouts.
I think most problems people face with this game are a combination of hardware not being powerful enough and internet connection not being good enough. Vermintide 2 always suffered from these problems when I played on my PS4-pro and my old PC, also I had a 300Mb connection in that house, so the game would randomly kick me to the point where half my games were kicks.
Once I got a PS5 the game ran quite smooth but I still got kicks, and once I moved house and got a 1Gb connection, V2 magically ran without any lag or things like phantom hits or hits thru blocks.
I want to clarify, this is NOT a players problem, as was said before, FS have a responsibility to make sure their games run on at least medium hardware. I do not have medium hardware in my PC.
I also had the same issues playing on my Steamdeck on DT, once I moved to a PC with a RTX4070Ti, my sound issues magically disappeared. On the PC I never have sound que problems. On the PS5 these issues magically appear again and playing on wifi, even tho the connection is “good” i.e. my PS5 has LoS to the router and its only 4 meters away with clear air between, the game still runs kinda bad. As soon as I plug my ethernet in, the game runs better. Still struggles and feels like 30fps (is there a way to get an fps counter up on PS5?)
I would be up for trapper changes even though I personally dont have an issue with them. I dodge 90% of trapper shots, but then the issue becomes more obvious with teams that split and on harder difficulties with huge masses of enemies.
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I will fight everyone else on this, I do think Trappers need to not be able to shoot through Ogryns and bosses.
Hordes are still fine because if you get caught out by a horde it’s your own fault and trapper is supposed to punish mistakes.
Ogryns? With how much they’re spammed and how jank the sound is it becomes a serious problem if the trapper can just fire a net through them.
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Too much, and anything below HiSTG has been easy-boring for too long even for 2 mans. You keep falling back to this but you’d be surprised…
Quite frankly that sounds a bit like a specific team issue, that’s not a very good supporting argument “my team sucks at dealing with X can we nerf X”, especially when X is “niche”.
Yeah, kinda, but I can just flip that around right back at you and say that’s why it’s ~fine as is, because it’s niche. I’m for it but I still feel like that may dumb down the game too much and nerf the trapper too much.
But yes, niche, doesn’t matter, it’s kinda whatever. The brute conscripts is a bit niche on top of the niche, I can see why it can be frustrating with a team that wasn’t properly dealing with crap, but as soon as the trapper pops up on the side she’s dead. IDK, is that too easy?
As I’ve mentioned ogryns specifically suffer more, the nets phasing through terrain is pure BS, and it usually points to ogryn problems specifically, as I’ve said re:dodges+linger; other threads on the topic, feel free to chime in now that you added “ogryn” to your context.
Trapper BS exists, I don’t think the nets through crap is necessarily the issue, I think ogryns should get the same dodges as vet or zealot and that would fix the issues methinks, they are unfairly punished more.
P.S. The crappy dodges and mobility unfairly punishing ogryn is why I’ve always felt an innate get out of jail free talent with a reasonably long cooldown vs dogs and nets isn’t a dealbreaker.
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