Is it time for another thread regarding developer information and transparency?

Or have I missed something? I dont browse reddit or steam forums, as I feel like fatshark’s own forum should be the primary source of information.

So please tell me, has anything improved since the last post I made about the matter and I just havent seen it? Because since that topic has been created, more than a month has passed already and I feel like the amount of information hasnt improved.

This is not primarily a dev-bashing thread, this is a request to either confirm or disprove my suspicion that nothing really came out of the thread.

July is a time in Sweden where people take a bunch of their annual leave whilst the sun is out for the brief period the skies allow. The same applies in the shark tank, which is why there has been a general slowing of progression that we can share.

We’ll have news and updates for you very soon.

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Apparently programmers and teachers take the summer off.

New DLC info “Shadows in Bogenhafen” is suppose to be in tomorrows issue of White Dwarf magazine.
Maybe it was Shadows under Bogenhafen?
If memory serves this was a WHFB roleplay adventure waaayy back when.

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Glad to see you have returned, our sweet prince. This bloody magazine hype has had me in fits of suspense since it got leaked. Looking forward to upcoming info.

Just to remind you there is no date for it in the mag, also I remember fire warrior showing up in white dwarf. It came out three months latter, so don’t get your hopes up. PS4 and dedicated servers are still to come, and I think that comes before any DLC.

Well, dont you think stuff like this belongs in your own “important information” category? When a development team is almost completely absent for a whole month when their game that they recently released is having its fair share of issues, I kinda think that is important information. You cant expect everyone to keep track of steam, reddit, and every dev post just to gain access to information like that.

Although I have read it before that july is a huge holiday month over at your place, it slipped my mind. Mostly because it was casually mentioned in a reply to a thread somewhere and not announced.

For me, this also falls in the category of developer information and transparency. Information about whats going on and the things to come, a bit more detailed than general “dlc, weapons, maps, balance, fixes”, go a veeeery long way to keep the playerbase happy. Or well, a bit less annoyed and frustrated. Tapping in the dark about something you love is not a very good feeling.

Meanwhile its 30º in Portugal @1am. Good temps to be rocking those FS socks outside…if i had some.

Since when does a company have to tell his customers about the vacation time of the employee´s?
Everyone knows that summer is vacation/holiday-time and that has nothing to do with the game at all. Let´s exaggerate it with informations. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Let the ppl enjoy their freetime… that´s more important than a videogame!

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What do you think is more efficient: post a short heads-up in a popular place and get the info out to alot of people all at once or post multiple times across multiple threads where alot of people will miss it? Im not demanding anything, im making suggestions.

Whats so bad about more info? Little to no info at all from fatshark’s side has led to distrust, frustration and people leaving the game for good. The idea of this game being a scam has been flung around alot for a while, especially after the roadmap debacle.

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Sure it would’t be bad if they left a slight notice for that but a little bit of info about the stand of development is more important in my opinion:

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There is no need FS have to tell us something privat or about the company´s state. Or do you want Hedge telling us everytime an employee goes to toilet and don´t fix any bugs in that time?
Asked about game - informations ok…

but this???

I can accept alot mate… but this is going to be ridiculous. They´re still humans and humans need a break from the permanently shitstorm about the game. Someone here got some ingame - frustrations? Man i would get hardly depressions if i would be the FS guy, that have to read every sheet and have to explain all here and on other websites.

I wouldn´t tell these guys “Hey we´re on vacation… pls cry the whole month, because noone works on your lovely game.”
If you really expect informations like that, than you´re selfish mate.

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No there isnt. But as I stated before

It really isnt as private as you make it out to be.

Right now you sound like a zealous white knight.

In a way, yes I am selfish. I dont want to be upset about things in the game not working. I want to thoroughly enjoy V2 as I did V1.

V1, btw, had a very long period of hibernation from Fatshark’s side. Im not quite sure what caused it, but for a long time between drachenfels release and bounty board, there was nothing. Witnessing that, I might be a bit biased. But other people before me spoke out about the alarming lack of communication. So its not only me.

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I don´t have to be a wk or something else to tell my opinion.

You already claimed, that it was about the vacation information.

It is something internal and still ridiculous in my eyes, to take things like that as “important information for the players”.

Actually there is “0” need that FS have to communicate with us.

Less communication = less stupid work = more time to program = faster content…

But hey… they still communicate with us and there is no need that Hedge have to tell us something about vacation etc. or even every week “We´ll give out informations soon.”
All that just causes, that FS have to work under pressure… and ppl don´t work good on that.
What would you do if ppl permanently crying about your game and want new informations everyday? Is that motivation for the employees?
I know that you just want a good experience and that you probably love that game. But sometimes it´s better to go a step back and give it time to grow up.
You know what happened last time with the packmaster issue… the “hotfix” brought more bugs, than it fixed. I don´t even had any packmaster issue before.

And just to say it again… there is no need that FS or Hedge have to tell us something about vacation or anything else in that company.

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Then I guess Hedge’s job as a community manager is completely pointless? Why would a company have a person like Hedge when they dont need to communicate at all.

There are certain things every company that provides service for money needs to do in order to keep everything running nice and easy. And one of these things is, right, communication with their customers. Because whats the one thing a gaming studio depends on? Support from customers. And customers tend to not want to give money when they feel like something isnt right.

This is not a call to boycott V2. This is also not a declaration that I will boycott FS and V2. But looking at https://steamcharts.com/app/552500, alot of people already did that. Decay in player numbers is normal, but the decline you can see here is more severe. I would be suprised if even a quarter of the people that bought V2 will buy a DLC.

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Yes there is no need for a community manager at all. It´s just has become everyday life like a president has to “twitter” something. Once upon a time ppl went out into a market and bought a game there. They went home and played it alone or with friends till they got bored of it. They turned it off and it probably still lies in a box on the loft. There was no need to give reviews or to have a community or even a manager for it.
Probably there wasn´t even internet to punch millions of informations in your face.

I´m pretty sure it´s no fun to read and complain about bad reviews and shitstorm from the “community” everyday, just because they got bored/frustrated or just killed ingame from the 20euro/500h+ game.
FS could´ve save a lot of nerves, if they would´ve closed their studio with the V2 launch. Get the money and go home. But they didn´t, so they want to do more.

I personally don´t care about V2 steamcharts… the game got overhyped and a lot of ppl bought it because of some friends. It was obviously that a multiplayer PVE-game from a lil studio can´t hold it´s playerbase. Yeah maybe 100ppl gone because they´re upset about the information-issue, but that alone isn´t a reason to quit.
The most ppl left because of borderness after a while, because of some bugs, because of less skill, because they boughtd it with a hyped friend and it wasn´t what they expected. And a bunch of that ppl is so harsh to give bad reviews for “whatever”. It´s mostyl like giving 1 from 10 stars, because the ppl rushed it into the ground of borderness. If they reached this point they start to explain about no cosmetics, no reds, unfair gameplay etc… Just because the fun is already gone. It´s the mind of the modern society, not more.

If you asked me, FS would´ve done good with no communication from the begin. Maybe patchnotes, but not more… No roadmap, no community, no explanations etc.
Just give out the DLC with some publicity on steam and the ppl would buy it.
“Oh hey cool, that was fun 6 month ago… new content gg.”

You´re right to think/tell that communication is important in many ways. But some ways are just exaggerate or absolutely not necessary. Ppl got no patience today and even that burns the own mind to be annoyed from anything.

Fatshark, or other companies for that matter, have no real obligation to communicate anything to us. They could just silently watch our concerns and work on fixes, or even just leave the game as is. But communication with clients (in this case, people who have purchased and play their games) is part of customer relations, and just good manners too. Steady communication with the playerbase is also expected nowadays, and with a team size FS has, it’s actually possible for fans to be involved beyond a few official contests or somesuch. But just as everything else, this too has changed in time. A decade or two ago hardly any game could’ve had as large involvement between developers and fans as today, and afaik, larger corporations still have less communication towards fans than this. That one may be wrong, though, as I haven’t been that much involved in any particular game community usually.

While telling us about workers’ vacation times isn’t usually really needed, not every nation has the times as massed as the Nordics and as such, nothing should be assumed. A warning beforehand of some sort in the form of “a lot of people are on vacation for a month now, leading to not much updates happening, so patience please” wouldn’t go amiss, though. But anything beyond that is likely to be too specific (and possibly personal).

More generally, some coordination between communication platforms is something that should be looked into. There are a lot of significant (if not truly important) messages from developers that end up cross-posted by users that follow several platforms - if even that. These would really benefit from official cross-posting (or at least an official thread with links to the relevant discussions when possible), in my opinion. Communication being spread between here, Steam, Discord, Reddit and streams is unfortunate, but nowadays unavoidable. I guess we should be happy that in this game’s case, Twitter and Facebook aren’t that significant communication channels…

Sorry if this message feels a bit rambling, I’m damn tired.

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Communication with clients is a good thing. There’s a reason why your favourite italian restaurant puts up a sign that says “summer vacation from x to y”. While it is common to assume everyone takes the summer of, not everyone comes from a culture or country where this is so easy. I, for example, could put a vacation ban on my employees even during summer under certain circumstances, so it isn’t self-explanatory to some people.

Not going into detail, since most things have been said. My only hope is that folks who claim companies don’t have to communicate at all with clients NEVER run a business. Which leads me to my only suggestion I have at this point for FS: Hire someone with an MBA. No offense, you guys don’t know how to run a business and you’re lucky so many people are still coming down with heavy cases of buyer’s remorse. In almost ANY other industry, you would have gone out of business a looooooong time ago. Being so incredibly lax towards customer’s trust is only going to last so far. Hire someone with an MBA. Do it. Yesterday.

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Yeah because you can compare a restaurent which lives from daily customers and a gaming studio which have to design 1 game every couple years. It´s not like you don´t even need someone to buy and play the game by yourself… :rofl:

And you´re the business-expert here why?
Let´s have a look at hmmm nintendo for example… does someone permanently talk to the ppl there? There isn´t even a real community site… They just tell about new games and give af about the ppl. Every 5 years a new Zelda and BOOOM in your face… Everyone complains about the new online-costs and nintendo says “fu, we don´t care”… everyone wants a virtual console and ninteno says “fu , we don´t care”… The Switch still booms the hell out of nowhere, because it´s brilliant and nobody gives af about informations. Nintendo keeps everything secret.
It´s the gaming industry… ppl want new games and want to play them and don´t need some proper informations from the developer everyday. Not even a vacation-information or something else.

If FS would work with EA or similar concerns and can´t comply with deadlines, they´ve to justify it in front of them, but not the customers. You guys are just inpatient in all ways.
As long as Hedge can´t tell you “here tons of content and fixes for you” , you´ll never be glad about anything.

Bugfixes? “Just again a lil fix within 1 month and more bugs confirmed.”
We´re on vacation. “Oh just another month wasted.”
We´ll have news and updates very soon. “Yeah… like the last 2 month… you guys don´t know how to handle this business.”

There is no need Hedge or /FS have to waste time, if there is nothing they could tell us like:

-releasedate for the DLC
-costs for the DLC
-releasedate or cancel from the dedicated servers
etc.

as long as you guys are still selfish and impatient, Hedge will tell you that so or so:

Why`? Because he can´t tell you anything , if nothing is finished yet. The Roadmap already was a big mistake. Sadly…
So go ahead and stop that sheettalking about the business / FS-decisions etc…
If it´s so much pain for you, maybe just follow the 100 steamusers and leave.

I really never read so much BS and i´m out here now… If i would have that “i know everything and FS is just sheet, everyone can do it better mind”, i would be the King of the World and had my own Vermintide game. HEAD MEETS TABLE!

Edit: If FS need 1 year for the DLC, maybe Hedge will tell us everyday. 365 days left… 364 days left… 363 days left… LOL
It takes the time it needs. Your beg won´t help to finish it faster… otherwise it´s going to be an uncomplete buggy game. You remember that feeling??? COOL

It’s perfectly comparable. Customer relations is quite universal, something you would know if you’d actually work in any kind of business that has to sustain customer relations.

Because I have an MBA and run a business. Maybe my whole perspective is tainted because I am used to US and central European business climates, but customer and public relations standards are so much higher in the US, it stands in very stark contrast to how especially companies from certain regions in Europe tend to run their businesses (FS reminds me alot of Overkill, they pulles similar things, but at least they had Goldfarb. I personally cannot stand him, but at least he tried.)

Nintendo of America and Japan? Yes, in fact, they do, especially in Japan. Also, Nintendo is a video game developer, they work as a publisher occasionally and they produce their own hardware. In Japan, their business is MUCH more than video games. Do you REALLY think they don’t communicate? May I reming you that Nintendo had an officially issued MAGAZINE (Nintendo Power) that is now an official podcast? Yeah… no communication at all.

Severe case of buyer’s remorse, have we? By business standards, their whole behaviour towards issues is simply unprofessional and quite frankly, immature at times. Nobody is DEMANDING them to do ANYTHING. At least I am not. But you don’t even need any kind of experience in BA, just a pinch of common sense that alot of the “sh*tstorm” could have been avoided by simply communicating in a professional manner. Communicating with your clients and community is a win-win situation when properly executed: The customer gets information and has no need to worry about his “investment” and the company saves alot of time and nerve because they do not have to endure questions that could be easily answered in 2 sentences in a sticky on the official forums. But them kinda juggling reddit, steam forums and this platform with information being discussed on reddit rather than here and not even officially LINKED to reddit, this is simply beyond explanation. This behaviour is simply unreasonable. It’s not even like they entertain they don’t need to communicate at all, they just let someone drop into the forums and post “oh, btw, there’s summer holidays in Sweden and alot of our guys are taking the summer of”, so the information DOES get passed to the peers. Then why, oh why not just make an announcement and provoke these kind of topics?

They are already wasting time, see above.

That’s not really how this works. Your appeal towards being “impatient” is just plain ignorance, which I assume stems from immaturity and lack of experience in business practice. But for the record: I am not impatient, I don’t care if they communicate or not. I am just suggesting that it would be in their best interest to execute proper public relations and customer communication practices instead of… whatever they are doing now.

Baseless, unwarrented ad hominem attack, see above.

I am offering helpful advice. Whether it goes unheaded or not is non of my concern. But from what I can see, they don’t have the basics of operating a company down, the absolutely bonkers roadmap being one of the examples for the fact they simply do not have anything remotely close to a business plan, considering they KNEW they had console ports they had to finish. Again, you don’t need much experience in BA to determine that even IF the PC launch would have been relatively smooth and bug free (which it wasn’t), their roadmap would have been… let’s say “ambitious”. I am on FS’s side. FS is not, and neither are you. Defending mistakes and failures this way will result in their repetition and not their correction.

Nobody’s “begging” them to do anything faster. At least not me. Again, all these things people have suggested are, from a BA perspective, in their own best interest. Customer trust is something that can be lost rather easily and can almost never be reclaimed once it’s gone. People have been burnt too often in the past by companies that shelled out an over-ambitious project, cashed in and left. The rest of the software developing teams have to carry that weight , that’s just how it is.

I prospect: The amount of BS will dramatically decrease thanks to your leaving.

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