Is it normal to leave teammates to die?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
41

This is one of those things that I say is a judgement call.

Know your limits. Look at what they’re surrounded by, spam tag to make sure you get a look at all specialists/elites in line of sight, then assess the amount of smaller, non-taggable enemies. Can you do it in less than ten seconds? Do it. If not, you’ll likely get another wave by the time you pick them up or something will come to disable you during the pickup.

Be mindful of what your team is doing If they’re wandering around and you’re between waves, tag the area for help with a location/eye marker. If they’re busy handling a horde, weigh the offensive power of the horde and note if they’re in a good defensible position to hold them off while you branch off to save your buddy.

Keep an eye on their bleedout timer. Going to go out of position when someone is less than 25% left is rarely going to work unless you have someone that can disable everything in the area with you.

Don’t sprint You’ll need that stamina to pick the person up, and if you’re not a psyker with kinetic deflection, odds are you’ll likely get hurt during pickup animation. This is why Deflection on your force sword coupled with kinetic deflection on the gun psyker tree is particularly useful.

And certainly last… Consider if they’re worth saving. If they’ve been BM or a detriment to the team by soaking up all the ammo, going out of position, etc. sometimes the best lesson is one in which they have to take time to think about why they went down in the first place.

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42

This is the Smite trap exemplified: Overuse and overreliance that gets you killed. You put yourself in this position trying to use a screwdriver as a hammer, repeatedly.

This is precisely why some/most of us people dislike smykers. Bad smykers sit there in near-turret mode Palpatining things, slooooowly and usually trap themselves by either constantly slowly retreating or standing still.
It’s not that we think it’s too strong, is the opposite and a giant noob trap.

I’m no Psyker guru, but learn to use it less, only as the situation or team comp demands and learn to use your other weapons too.

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43

Stay with me pal, your friendly Ogryn.

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44

It does seem like there is some element you are struggling with, either that or you have the worst luck and all the speedrunners plague your games, a blessing from nurgle surely!?!

Maybe some gameplay videos might help.

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45

unless you got netted or dogged, at no point are you physically unable to at least keep up with your team if you make THAT your priority.

its highly unlikely you’ll end up with 3 knife zealots every single time, so the amount of "left behind"s on your part, seems in fact a personal pacing issue.

you see your team gaining distance, you drop what you’re doing, disengage the karking enemy and hoof it.

simple as.

if i as an ogryn can use the environment for cover of pursuing ranged enemies, a psyker can pop a dome and have his back behind a wall.

you staying until the dome pops is again a "you"decision

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46

Yes, 100% agreed. I have twice as many levels in Psyker than any other class, and the builds I have with smite use smite very situationally.

Usually it’s on my gun Psyker build where I’m using smite when there are packs of elites. I only use a partially charged attack just long enough to be able to knock over the enemies. Then I switch the dueling sword and run around stabbing everything in head as it tries to stand up.

More broadly, if your using smite a lot of the time you are SEVERELY limiting your mobility and ability to reposition quickly to keep yourself with the team and/or to move into a defensible position. Smite is a great AoE stagger tool with the right build and the right situation. The rest of the time the priority should be actually killing enemies. Smite, even with all its buffs, just doesn’t do enough damage fast enough on Damnation to be a substitute for your main attacks.

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47

OP ran into some rushers, and rushers don’t revive people that’re behind them their methods are subpar for their situaton maybe, but problem one is they epected their teammates who were already established as rushing to stop rushing if there’s a problem.

most of the wipes i see are because of rushers.

48

Coherency is a two-way street. If the whole party is ahead, who is rushing?

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49

this. it’s the “darktide as it’s meant to be” experience for me when i have a team of competent players that move together naturally. this often results in a smooth ride because threats are dealt with so swiftly that you don’t even get into those clusterfk situations.

on the other hand, having both rushers and laggards is the worst team, even with people that play well for themselves, because it stretches the team thinly and that rarely gets far.

speaking of laggards, i remember a hilarious end of a run when we 3 people were waiting in a elevator for #4 who battled a (somehow important) horde all for himself, despite repeated pings… and the very moment he finally joined, a fire grenade flew into the elevator and the door fell shut.

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50

i always try to save people cause i think it is nice to do
if it happens you can’t because of reasons, you shouldn’t risk

whenever someone dies i cheer for the emperor to honor their death :laughing:

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51

Leaving half the squad to die to rush is definitely sus behaviour. The tunnel vision is definitely real, but more than that just as you struggle with your things, you should be mindful that others will often be doing the same. Toxicity is very rare in Darktide, but the times I’ve seen it happen it’s often from people who clearly had no idea what the rest of the team were dealing with.

But this issue as a whole is pretty complicated in my experience. T5+ has a LOT of people in it who just aren’t ready for it. And that’s fine, everyone starts off that way. But if I’ve gone back twice to save someone who chose to lag behind for what I could clearly see was no reason, then clearing the way back only to see them not even make the effort of catching up, I probably won’t go back a third time or ever again if they keep doing that after being rescued later.

Speed is absolutely a factor, especially with modifiers like HISTG, Mael or if the spawns get bugged, since the AI is constantly sending in waves of specialists & the occasional horde. The missions aren’t just about individual big fights but also about attrition. The more pointless fights you get into, the more resources they drain and the more likely it is for something to go wrong. Playing turtle until it’s perfectly safe and quiet is often not an option. And nobody likes stuff like the usual lvl 30-40’s keeping the game hostage on lifts and doors for minutes on end to keep fighting the endless specialist spawns on a HISTG (they don’t know ofc, not their fault, but it does get annoying after a while).

Naturally this doesn’t mean you should be rushing in and over-extending either. Point is, on T5+ you often need to keep a brisk pace, clear & loot while moving forward, but also stand your ground or pull back when the situation requires.

And while it may seem insensitive, considering this is the highest difficulty in the game I absolutely expect people to be aware of their own limitations: If they can’t handle themselves then they should follow the team. But if they repeatedly lag behind, rush, wander off on their own or whatever and keep getting downed? Then they need to learn their lesson, and the mission and the rest of the team must take priority. But I mean this only in the most extreme cases. Obviously people should always strive to save teammates if they can.

As usual it’s about that golden middle road. Saying who was in the wrong without being there is impossible. I’ve met my fair share of genuine speedrunners too and added every single one on my blocklist, so believe me I can empathize. :sweat_smile:

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52

Reading more about this… I don’t mean to be rude but by the sound of things you focus on Smite rather exclusively, use it on hordes with a build that doesn’t even use Empowered Psionics & Vent w/ Creeping Flames (so super weak and doesn’t kill), and need support to kill even the weakest things in the game? A bit of a hyperbole I’m sure but, still.

Hordes are the last thing you should be using Smite on, you could simply kill the lot of them with something like an Illisi or a staff or basically anything and all on your own. Heck, just spamming push on a Force Sword would do the same job for no peril. Smite is specifically an anti-special & elite tool, and yes ofc. it’s good for mixed hordes too but only bc those specials+ are in there.

Smite is already a very charged subject. Many experienced ppl dislike how ridiculously easy it makes the game (we’re not on T5+ to fight a bunch of afk mobs). Meanwhile ironically many bad players hate it bc they think it isn’t strong enough, and can’t capitalize to literally wipe everything solo as long as someone’s smiting. If you’re using it wrong on top of that, I can’t help but imagine some ppl might go their own way bc of that alone.

Obviously I don’t mean to imply all of the above is the only way you play and maybe I just got the wrong picture here. But I think it’s worth mentioning that if this is how you play, then you really shouldn’t. :smile:

It does yes. Especially with Battle Med, Perilous Combustion, and some of the warp dmg buffs (ie. at least Warp Rider, + Perfect Timing, Malefic Momentum, etc.). EP & Vent smite can clean the board of most anything but the strongest elites with a single Smite → wait until just below 100% → pop Vent while still Smiting → keep going until again just below 100% → stop so you get that stagger at the end. And you’ll still have 2 EP stacks left.

I wish more Smiters at least used this option, instead of going the Warp Rider route where it lasts 10x longer all for a fraction of the dmg. That right there is a big part of why it’s often so boring and annoying. x.x

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53

one other gripe with smite: i consider using smite briefly to stop a rager rush um… “ethical”, but spamming it non-stop clutters everyone’s view with purple lightning, and then with blue flames if the psyker also has the burn talent. as if the game doesn’t throw fire, smoke and gas at you constantly. just ranting because i had a game with that today. the smyker did a good job keeping everything at distance, but i was thinking al l the time: am i allowed to see anything clearly during this game? blue flames and flashes everywhere, arrr.

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54

Do not listen to those rejects. We never leave someone behind.

The Emperor protects.

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55

First swap off smite.
Second figure out how to handle melee combat in auric dam and how to handle big mobs of enemies as your class.

Nothing needs to die in 1 second but they also can’t just not die at all and have your team come take them out.
You need to cut a path though enemies with every single build you run in auric damnation.

Just think of it this way you see your team quickly run though enemies and cut them down and keep moving into a good kill box.
Now they look and your stuck in a weird hallway been shot at with no cover and pile enemies slowly frying while you panic.

They can easily cut a path though the mob and rescue you but also YOU should be able to also cut a path though.

You don’t actually need to kill 10 elites in 5 seconds you just need good positioning so you can push them down or kite around them and run to the team.

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56

There’s a lot of condescending language in this post. Think you might need to take a step back, breathe, and stop looking down your nose at other players. It’s worth noting that if you’re running into a “problem” every game, it’s likely a “you” problem.

You should have a way to kill groups that doesn’t rely on your teammates following up on your Smite. Your teammates aren’t your babysitter. You have a ranged weapon, a melee weapon, and an ult. Use them. Fire Vent is an easy plug with Smite to clear basically all non-crusher enemies. You’ve got plenty of armor killing options in your ranged / melee kit.

People go faster on Damnation / Auric, yeah. It’s fun to get stuck in and you don’t want to get resource attritioned by increased spawns.

And is it normal to leave folks to die? On Damnation, yeah. Sometimes it’s not safe enough to rez. If they’re separated, surrounded by a crusher pack, and there’s a whole shooter squad aiming at them, I’d rather try to get them at the next respawn. No use throwing the mission to force a square peg into a round hole.

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57

Is it normal to leave teammates to die?
It is, in fact not the best move, simply because it will reduce teams effectiveness by around ~25% on average. But sometimes it is necessary (because at times it is impossible to revive or save the person without a huge risk of dying yourself), which is not the case in your situation.

I can only get rid of these hordes with the help of my squad, which seems obvious
No it is not, people are centered around their own experience and fun, and want their teammates to do what is obvious to them.
To your teammates it seemed obvious that you would deal with your enemies, who are not bothering them, and that your would help them to complete the mission by being with the team and assist them.
Also, for people it is not fun to go out of their way to kill stunlocked enemies, they would rather kill some dude who is an immediate threat to them. (also, sometimes stunlocked stunlocked enemies are pretty hard to notice if they are not in front of you and somewhere behind)
If you want someone who is willing to do that, play with premades and communicate to them what do you want :+1:

I help in any way I can, but that is rarely reciprocated when I’m struggling
That sucks mate :pensive:
That is why people prefer premade, people there are more inclined to pay more attention to you. Also, there are very different people in pubs, some more friendly, some aggressive, and some are very wierd, that is why I like it, so maybe it was a bad day and you got a lot more of bad people.

Do you get a penance for completing the mission faster? I need to know
Not really, but people who played a lot and became better at the game, will do them faster just because it’s more fun.
How do I know?
Well, my friends do complain that I pretty much rush missions and often get grabbed pretty far from the rest, which I try to fix by just being in their vision but it doesn’t work out sometimes.
Why do I do that?
Well, you see, the best way to kill a shooter is to force them NOT to use the shooty, so I just run up to them and start killing, and after I killed those I go deeper into enemy lines. I think that I am helping the team by dealing with these dudes.

Well, I think that 56 people there probably said everything I said here, but my concluding thought is to not focus on that too much and work around that, people are different and we need to find the way to work with the most of them, that is what Team-Based Game is

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58

That would have been preferable, as we then could see what we are talking about. Right now i need to draw inferences from the snippets presented in the conversation.

Like for example, i am not sure what you mean as Speedrunning. I’ve done Speedruns in the game, and i know that you need to let the whole team know in advance, or its a doomed run. There is no point in “Speed Running” when you stand in the airlock for 5 minutes waiting for the one guy that didn’t get the memo.

And because i don’t think that is what they were doing, i am wondering what you call Speedrunning and if thats just the Squirrel Brained Ogryn and Zealot that ever chase their next Stack to maintain, because their build falls apart when they have nobody to hit.

Those are two different mindsets of players, and in the context of your question, it would also be two different answers.

In a similar fashion… i can be charitable and trust that you can get yourself out of such a position, but at the same time you seem to be complaining that you can’t get yourself out. And need your teammates to clear a path.

Look, i am predisposed to play… what i consider the shepard position in the team. Usually the guy that makes sure nobody is left behind and that cleans up all those enemies everyone else doesn’t seem to pay attention to, because they were knocked down or whatever and get overlooked.

And that usually means i am the one standing like 20-50 meters “ahead” of the slow poke, watching them, until they finally extract themselves from the never ending poxwalker and groaner stream they found themselves in and for whatever reason (usually because they have no Stamina), they never once consider getting a bit distance, throwing the enemies down or unloading their ranged weapon to kill just enough so they can turn around and sprint after the team.

So, i am not as willing to blame the people that ran ahead. As i said… i’ve seen one to many person that didn’t get a move on when they should have gotten a move on ages ago.

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59

Idk post some gameplay of the scenario happening and its easier to discern what is the actual culprit here.

I do personally think that people value reviving way too highly in most pub scenarios. If 1 person out of 4 dies its usually salvageable, if 2 people all the sudden get downed then you start to require lot more skill from the remaining 2 to stay a float.
Yeah not advocating against reviving but seriously think twice if its a good idea to run between those 20 crushers to get an revive off.

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60

This is my gripe with it. It’s not that it’s too strong, it’s just boring, and if someone on the team is using it as their primary weapon, then I can’t escape from it.

As for my take on it, I already made a post about this sharing my opinion, so I won’t repeat what I said.

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