Yeah I’m not sure that’s a breakpoint we should be worried about. You couldn’t realistically control multiply CWs and they’re no threat if it’s one on his own anyway. Not to mention it’s not possible to interrupt their quick uppercut which is much harder to avoid than the overhead. Does stagger decrease as you cleave enemies? Like does that breakpoint only work if the CW is the first thing your swing hits?
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This isn’t supposed to be standofish towards you, but it’s not the player’s fault that they added such versatile Weapons to the game, and made some of the original ones obsolete. I’d also argue that they underestimated how much Armour Piercing damage would be necessary. The disparity between some of the Weapons is absurd, while they don’t offer any more than their counterparts on what they’re supposed to be good at.
Bardin doesn’t really have one outside of playing on Slayer (where his Melee strength makes sense). You can say 2H Mace on IB and RV until your face turns blue, but the attacks aren’t fast enough to compete with the rest of the Weapons on this list.
Mace and Sword for Kruber.
Bretonian Longsword for Kruber.
Mace and Shield for Kruber.
Flail for Sienna.
SnD for Kerillian.
Daggers for Kerillian, if you want to risk RSI.
For Saltz, it’s easier to say the Weapons that aren’t. Flail and 2H Sword, which goes out of the window on Zealot, who makes both absurdly strong.
The point is: I can play Sword and Mace, and do heavies, instantly damaging Armour, CCing Hordes, while killing them for THP. Or I can play a 1H Sword and have to do two ‘nothing’ attacks, before my Armour damage happens, and it’s a Light Attack overhead.
On Sienna, I can play Flail and spam Heavies 24/7, CCing and Killing multiple Elites, or I can play Dagger and randomly have to hit Armoured enemies for like 0.2% of their health pools before I do my Heavy Attack.
I don’t want really strong on-demand damage, because that’s what leads to Saltz’ Weapons. I just want the chain to make sense, and do a bit of damage, rather than making me feel like my character has a head injury off camera.
There’s a ramp up for no reason other than balance, when the damage could just be made more spread out. It’s one of those things where you can ‘feel’ the balance or intentional downsides.
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It’s time to D-D-D-Dual Hammers. In terms of versatility, Dual Hammers are up there on all three of Bardin’s careers. They struggle with bosses but otherwise do very well. Decent damage on heavies, and great push attack into light combo for single target dmg. Easiest horde clear in the game too, plus great stamina and mobility that’s on par with Cornetto and Toy Sword, which is the weapon it compares best to I think.
I’d like to see something done to the Warpick’s push attack and it given a slight increase in mobility to give it a unique identity not only among Bardin’s weapons, but also when compared to the Exec. The partial heavy could also do with some changes, as it’s only role is ‘I can’t get enough time for a full charge’.
Didn’t want to target anyone, just feel like Bardin’s in a pretty good spot overall outside of the Warpick and RV playing a little weirdly.
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I agree. They need to keep the Melee Weapons kind of weak, but then give the Melee Careers tools to make them strong.
At the minute they’re strong outside of the Melee Careers, for the Weapons mentioned.
Bardin fits this perfectly, although I’d say 1H Axe is still a bit meh, for IB and RV too.
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Things that can be done to improve kruber weapons in my opinion:
1H sword: give the same h1 of kerillian 1H sword that chains in l3 just like kerillian. Push attack chains in heavy sweeps thet would now be h2 and h3. In this way the sword keeps his core identity but doesn’t feel worthless against anything that is not trash mobs.
Seriusly i really don’t understand why kerillian 1h sword has to be so much superior to kruber/ sienna one and the funny thing a lot of people scorn thw 1H sword of kerillian ( who could blame them compered to the absurdity powerhouse that are most of their weapon).
Or they could just put a bandaid solution to increase the heavy sweeps armor damage by a decent amount and put the linesman mass modifier instad of tank. A plus 10% crit on the l3 would also help with the armor problem.
Ex Sword: at least revert the nerf on the push attack and increase the stagger cleave at the same level of bardin warpick so there can be a justification for the attack being so slow, maybe to increase it only for the l2 and 3 would be fine.
The shielded weapon tecnically are compleatly fine only problem is that their focus is on staggering instad of killing enemeis which is obwiusly inferior utility if you are not playing in a coordinated team i don’t really know if there is some way to fix this “problem”.
1H mace i don’t know what can be done to be redeemed that weapon just sucks, same for greatsword it has her niche extremly high cleave “amazing” in mixed hordes but i feel this utility extreamly useless since anyway there are a ton of other ways to deal with mixed hordes the low stagger and low armor damage are not worth the great cleave in my opinion and the weapon is boring as f*ck. Adding a l3 as a thrust tha could be chained after a pushattack as someone suggested in some other thread would help the weapon greatly.
All the other wapons are more or less fine overall for all kruber careers.
I see that i was late to this topic but still wanted to give my opinon since i do belive that kruber weapons is the biggest wasted potential of all the game.
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Or maybe just make all those 3 1h swords shares same thing other than their models; skin/illusion.
Reminder that shared weapons have the unique problem where if it becomes OP for one class it gets nerfed for all classes, if making Kruber, Elf, and Sienna share the same sword is what you want to do.
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Yep they should have unique profiles able to modify for career lineup without crossing classes even if swings are identical. Falchion being extremely similar in pattern but able to be made very different in numbers and attack angle.
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Well, I never expected about that… hmm…
How about just make its heavies different?
Like, “high-dmg/armour-piercing low-cleave diagonal swing(s)” than current “high-cleave horizontal swings”?
tbh the 1h swords are in a pretty good place, albeit overshadowed on Kruber and the Elf by other options. On Sienna it’s one of the best options available for pyromancer and is pretty solid on unchained as well.
Does it compete with dagger for Pyro? And how do people feel about crowbill these days? I remember crowbill being considered very strong on Pyro once upon a time but I rarely see it mentioned anymore these days.
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I’d say, the Crowbill is overshadowed by Flaming Flail. Doesn’t mean that Flaming Flail is overpowered, by the way.
I like the Crowbill for what it does, feeling like a niche anti-armor with strong stagger on heavies with the benefit of better mobility. I like the flail if I intend to grind through melee more than anything. But as Sienna I typically staff most things (unless I’m Unchained).
The only thing I think I’d care to see on the Bret Longsword is the heavy attacks being 5-10% faster to execute and the light swings ~5% faster. The parry on heavies could maybe be a pinch faster just to compensate for latency. I like using it because it’s there, but I do feel it’s a hair slower than it should be.
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yes, arguably better even after the finesse buffs carried out by a certain group of unpaid amateurs :^)
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Hmmmm I see.
Could we perhaps use the crit chance softcap from Pseudo Random Crits to our advantage here? If the 1h sword light and/or heavies got like, +5% crit chance that would let the Kruber classes get more use out of its finesse modifier, but since Pyro is usually already at crit chance soft cap, in theory this change wouldn’t really affect her any, other than making it a bit more effective when she’s not on high heat.
Bit weird maybe for a 1h sword to have crit chance, but I can’t think of any other way to make it more useful for Kruber without also buffing it for Pyro.
I am in love with crowbill.
no weapon comes close. best weapon in the game hands down!
actually not even joking. exagerating a bit sure, but its my fav weapon.
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yeah weapons being carbon copied across characters certainly throws a spanner in the works for balancing
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I was thinking the crit chance on heavies might also make for decent use on GK since with crit auto kill talent and better SS uptime than a lot of his other choices he might be able to do some work on hordes with it. Benefit for HS is also pretty self explanatory since he already has a bit of crit chance and also the +20% damage on crits talent. FK probably wouldn’t mind a higher SS uptime weapon either.
What do you think of the crit chance idea? Do you think there’s any way to balance it across both characters?
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I think it’s a fine idea, 1h sword isn’t really at risk of becoming overpowered any time soon. Pyro with an extra 5% crit really wouldn’t mean much given how much she’s already got stacked
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