Improve HUNTSMAN ACTIVE

[da3strikes]

Sure seems like I use his ult for non-CW and bosses. Must be playing it wrong. Too much damage and too many kills, so probably.

@souI23

also regardless other careers and regardless roles, use the active against bosses seems inefficient;

Not true.

@souI23

f you want to know why I think that without more damage against bosses HS is useless in comparison with other ranged careers, you have to read the others threads I have written. Because we are off topic and so I will not answer about this again.

I didn’t ask. Didn’t even mention this. But I also thinks it’s wrong.

[souI23]

I have just written some objective facts, like that using the active against an enemy that die with one/two arrows is just wasted time, so normally it is not thought for that… after that, you are free to have your opinion and your playstyle.

[fuzzydwarf]

@souI23

I have just written some objective facts

To be fair, people are arguing your conclusions, not your facts.

@souI23

like that using the active against an enemy that die with one/two arrows is just wasted time, so normally it is not thought for that

Well this is 100% subjective. To me, it seems like a great use of the ult to kill certain enemies in one hit instead of two. That’s the entire reason certain breakpoints are so powerful.

I use the huntsman ult on Plague monks for the one-shot myself. It’s great.

If you don’t think that’s valuable, then, ok I guess.

[da3strikes]

@fuzzydwarf

I use the huntsman ult on Plague monks for the one-shot myself

Or to be able to spam light shots vs charged. This combined with increased reload on the ult sure makes it seem useful against other unit types in a bunch of situations.

It’s okay. He’s made up his mind.

[keysersoeze]

The nerf some time ago was ridiculous , as much as it was to OP before.

Should find some middle ground.

I agree with all your points.

@souI23

• the active lasts only 6 seconds, and we must choose stealth or damage;
• also while you are invisible, enemies continue to attack you for some seconds; you also can’t go through them… you can lose precious seconds and/or you get stuck anyway;
• crounching animation… simply nonsense and annoying;
• screen effects. Luckly, now they are better (and they are not still bugged)… but the screen still becomes too dark;
• damage multiplier . Let me tell a story. Months ago, this active was balanced, and noone complained about this. Suddently, a patch added some changes/bugs, like a damage no longer capped and 100% crit rate under the active; so Huntsman became terribly OP: a nerf was necessary. And it came… but it was so excessive.
  The point is: one time removed autocrit and the cap absence… why also reduce the multiplier?

[souI23]

I can agree about Monks… but, for the rest, fire two normal charged shots is faster than use active and fire one charged shot.

Anyway I have my opinion as you have your… but saying that HS active/talents aren’t thought for the bosses… IMHO it is to deny the reality.

Then, as I have already said, if you want know why imho HS should do more damage vs bosses (it would be the only real advantage in comparison with BH), there is the other thread. Here it is off topic.

[anon26183726]

I’ll just say again, the way you say things you seem to imply you want Huntsman to fire off equally damaging arrows to Bounty Hunters active during his(HS) active as fast as he can shoot arrows.

@souI23

using the active against an enemy that die with one/two arrows is just wasted time

So cutting two shots to one for killing certain enemies isn’t good enough?

My main issue with HS ult is the random crouch you do visually, lowering your aim and sometimes resulting in fences or dwarves suddenly being in your LoS for a moment, shouldn’t be there. (imo)

[mookanana]

the crusade continues!

you compare the huntsman’s active with the shade’s active, and say that the shade’s active is much stronger. -.-

the shade has to go into melee range to stab the boss. to get the most out of her abilities she has to stay melee range AND at it’s back for optimal dps.

bosses don’t stay still you know. they move around a lot. especially the chaos spawn. not sure if you’ve played shade a lot, but you seem to be neglecting the fact (as usual) that there’s travel time involved, catch-up time involved.

the huntsman can just continue shooting non stop at the boss while the shade’s running up to it. and more and more. it’s constant high ranged dps on the boss (especially with longbow’s +dmg against bosses)

@souI23

With one headshot he can kill: SV, flame, Ratling, Packmaster, Assassing, Globadier, Leech, Stormer.
With one bodyshot (and the most used build) he can kill: SV, Ratling, Assassin and Flame.
With two bodyshot he can kill: SV, flame, Ratling, Packmaster, Assassing, Globadier, Leech, Stormer and Mauler.

we’ve been through this a thousand times and yet your facts are still wrong. why are you just plain ignoring the truth?

one bodyshot kills ALL SPECIALS. at any range. maulers take 2 shots (they’re not specials). +10% against infantry, chaos, skaven does the trick.

but as always, you just like to skew the truth for your own arguments. i think this has been repeated like 3 times before. but i love typing so i’ll just continue =)

[fuzzydwarf]

@mookanana

you compare the huntsman’s active with the shade’s active, and say that the shade’s active is much stronger.

the shade has to go into melee range to stab the boss. to get the most out of her abilities she has to stay melee range AND at it’s back for optimal dps.

bosses don’t stay still you know. they move around a lot. especially the chaos spawn. not sure if you’ve played shade a lot, but you seem to be neglecting the fact (as usual) that there’s travel time involved, catch-up time involved.

the huntsman can just continue shooting non stop at the boss while the shade’s running up to it. and more and more. it’s constant high ranged dps on the boss (especially with longbow’s +dmg against bosses)

Uh, shade ult with DnD is a little obscene against bosses, honestly doesn’t matter if it’s melee. Are you talking about other shade using other weapons?

@mookanana

we’ve been through this a thousand times and yet your facts are still wrong. why are you just plain ignoring the truth?

one bodyshot kills ALL SPECIALS. at any range. maulers take 2 shots (they’re not specials). +10% against infantry, chaos, skaven does the trick.

but as always, you just like to skew the truth for your own arguments. i think this has been repeated like 3 times before. but i love typing so i’ll just continue =)

Um, he is talking about longbow, not handgun. 2 shots at full charged bodyshots against most specials in the ‘near’ distance category with zero +power.

[mookanana]

@fuzzydwarf

Uh, shade ult with DnD is a little obscene against bosses, honestly doesn’t matter if it’s melee. Are you talking about other shade using other weapons?

uh yes, but why does everyone seem to forget that the shade needs to maintain melee range? when bosses spawn the shade doesn’t automatically keep teleporting to it’s back from across the map. a str pot huntsman would have decimated almost half the boss hp before it even reached the party from across a field. why not throw in some specials and a horde as well, and a shade would have trouble getting to the boss without a purple pot. i mean, there are plenty of situations where a ranged character would be able to do much more damage to a boss when the shade is understandably engaged or unable to reach the boss effectively, but it just seems to get blown under the table.

@fuzzydwarf

Um, he is talking about longbow, not handgun. 2 shots at full charged bodyshots against most specials in the ‘near’ distance category with zero +power.

and i’m talking about using the huntsman at it’s proper power capacity with the longbow, not entry level. i mean, don’t you agree that if you haven’t even optimised a class, obviously it isn’t going to perform as well?

edit: my bad, confused myself btw longbow and rifle breakpoints. @fuzzydwarf is right

[BlackBart]

@fuzzydwarf

Uh, shade ult with DnD is a little obscene against bosses, honestly doesn’t matter if it’s melee. Are you talking about other shade using other weapons?

That is supposed to be the shades job, and mookanana is correct bosses run around, playing shade I’ve lost entire ult’s plus conc pots chasing after bosses, not to mention not being able to stab a fallen down troll from behind because of the weapon range, and being forced to stand in it’s vomit if I want to attack it.

The amount of boss attacks that have hit me while I was invisible is quite high too, or Stormvermin attacks dragged on to me by friends, or Chaos Warrior attacks, but I’m off topic.

@souI23

also while you are invisible, enemies continue to attack you for some seconds; you also can’t go through them… you can lose precious seconds and/or you get stuck anyway;

I could see a reasonable argument for seeing Hobo Krubers buffed here, some kind of immediate damage immunity to non-boss attacks until Kruber attacks.

I enjoy playing HS already, I’m not of the opinion that it’s in need of any buff.

[mookanana]

@souI23

Shade, with one hit, can cut off half boss hp

you playing on recruit?

@souI23

Shade stealth is strong: lasts enough and she can go through enemies… Huntsman has only 6 second, and often he use two of them to wait that enemies end the attack animation. He also can’t go through enemy.

so… you want the huntsman’s ult to be as powerful like the shade? with ranged damage similar to the shade’s ult?

on this topic… the stealth works the exact same way. it doesn’t grant you immunity. if you are under attack and you stealth, you’re supposed to have your melee weapon out and blocking to fend off the last few strikes that the enemies have ‘locked’ on to you. once they have finished their strikes they’ll run off to find other players. if you’ve played huntsman well enough you’d know this. and yes, he can’t go through enemies, he’s not blessed by khaine, he’s not a shade. going through enemies is a shade thing. it’s doesn’t apply to ALL stealth abilities.

btw, shade also suffers from the same thing in that the last few strikes of an enemy will hit if you activate stealth.

[fuzzydwarf]

@mookanana

uh yes, but why does everyone seem to forget that the shade needs to maintain melee range? when bosses spawn the shade doesn’t automatically keep teleporting to it’s back from across the map.

Because it’s not that big of a deal, excluding perhaps the chaos spawn, but even the chaos spawn can be tanked in place (for some builds).

@mookanana

and i’m talking about using the huntsman at it’s proper power capacity with the longbow, not entry level. i mean, don’t you agree that if you haven’t even optimised a class, obviously it isn’t going to perform as well?

Sure, I agree. +10% skaven/infantry/chaos is a handgun build though, right?

On longbow, if you go for the stormvermin bodyshot breakpoint of 22% skaven/armored, you’ve got 10% more power to work with. Going 20% skaven does let you hit the one-shot bodyshot for packmasters. With that build you can’t hit the 41.2% required to one-shot the globes, stormers, or leeches. Fully charged ‘near’ bodyshots.

You can never hit both the globe and leech/stormer bodyshot breakpoints. Moving to ‘far’ fully charged shots you drop to 2+ hits for most specials. Unless you ult, I’m not sure how it’s possible to one-shot bodyshot all specials at any range.

[fuzzydwarf]

@mookanana

@fuzzydwarf

Sure, I agree. +10% skaven/infantry/chaos is a handgun build though, right?

no. i am talking longbow build. lol i’m on repeat mode like a broken record. 1 shot, bodyshot specials, any range. try it out.

by bodyshot i mean charged shots (half drawn or full zoom, not light attacks)

The rest of my post:

@fuzzydwarf

On longbow, if you go for the stormvermin bodyshot breakpoint of 22% skaven/armored, you’ve got 10% more power to work with. Going 20% skaven does let you hit the one-shot bodyshot for packmasters. With that build you can’t hit the 41.2% required to one-shot the globes, stormers, or leeches. Fully charged ‘near’ bodyshots.

You can never hit both the globe and leech/stormer bodyshot breakpoints. Moving to ‘far’ fully charged shots you drop to 2+ hits for most specials. Unless you ult, I’m not sure how it’s possible to one-shot bodyshot all specials at any range.

[mookanana]

@fuzzydwarf

The rest of my post:

sorry i admit my mistake, those values are for handguns. my longbow doesn’t get blightstormers/leeches in one body normal shot, but everything else is. you are right

[souI23]

I don’t understand the first part.

Yes, because is faster and more efficient fire two shot (use the active and fire one shot takes more time)… also, in this way, you don’t “waste” the active.

[souI23]

I have talked about Shade only to answer to another message.

Anyway:

the huntsman can just continue shooting non stop at the boss

Sure… as when you hit one time the boss and he starts to run toward you. And also you fight in a tight place.

For the rest, just flame and off topic speech.

[souI23]

Again just flame and off topic. I have not said that HS should have a stealth ability like Shade… I have said that, also HS stealth could be usefull sometimes, it is not enough to compensate the low damge… but if they buff the damage, I am fine with the HS stealth.

The problem, I repeat, is that HS (with active and talents thought to do more damage on one single huge target) does same (or less) damage in comparison with other RANGED careers (Shade if off topic).

[souI23]

I respect to your opinion, but seem you haven’t understand my thread (maybe for my fault)… anyway if HS, a career with active and talents thought to do damage vs boss, does same or less damage in comparison with the other RANGED (Shade is totally off topic) careers… there are some problems.

[souI23]

Exactly… when an ability is over powered, they always nerf it too much… Every time.