I'd like an explanation behind the crafting system, please

I know! Right? Why not try to go with approach from CS:GO where the only thing RNG based was “Skins”. You want your gun/poke-stick to look fancy? Pay for it.

I still think FatShark brass got wrong idea about players backlash - It wasn’t about Cosmetics shop with hard currency being there at all. It was about it being functional before bugs were removed and features that were supposed to be there taking 6 months to implement.

Hell. Throw some disposable cosmetics at the PC-Beta-Testing folks till everything works and people are more or less satisfied, THEN implement cash cow into the mix. You keep good will and earn cash.
And also look less dickish about it too.


This, this in it’s entirety.

I’m someone that goes for ‘god rolls’ and heavily enjoys maxing out my character, but at this point the reason the crafting system is the way it is is to provide a ‘constant pursuit’ for the player to continue to play the gameplay loop of the game. The games entire draw is it’s incredible core gameplay, and regardless of all the crap around it, the core gameplay is what keeps people coming back.

But every game will get stale, and the only way to stave that off is to drip feed new experiences, and this crafting system is one of the better ways I’ve seen (unfortunately) that does that. You don’t just walk in with everything you could want, play with it all for an evening, then leave never to touch it again. You feel you’re ‘missing something’ by not having those potent blessings, and that pushes you to want to keep getting more mats so you can maybe get them next time, and do your weeklies so you can get blessings from Melk so you can have them in reserve to maybe make that ‘perfect weapon’ you so heavily want.

It keeps the gameplay ‘relevant’ for a lot longer of a period of time than it normally would, and that’s entirely the point of it. If you want to look at an example of a game that had this, but then dropped it and became all the worse for it, just look at Destiny 2.

They implemented crafting that not only let you make the exact weapon you wanted, but a literally strictly BETTER weapon than one you could find out in the wild. What did this do? invalidate every single RNG drop in the game, make it so people could horde literal best in class weapons forever, and made it so if they wanted to make the loot chase relevant, they would always have to make something better AND craftable so that the playerbase would care about it. What was ‘weekend long grinding sessions to try and get that 10/10 from X dungeon/Strike/what have you’ became ‘ok, play the game for 10 minutes each week for my pattern, then leave the game forever until the next content patch’.

I know many that complain about it want exactly that in their video game, but the point is for that NOT to be the case and for there to be a constant stream of players playing the game, and this is there solution. Adding in the ability to get exactly what you want would be fun for a decent bit, but would remove ‘replayable’ from the game entirely.

And at this point, if you’re not looking to continually farm for perfect, then it’s totally ok dropping the game and getting added to the ‘memorial’ board. Because you’re going to leave the game if you get what you want anyway.

(though if they removed/helped the rng a bit for stat rolls at least showing up at 370-380 range from brunt every 10 weapons or something, that would be nice in terms of at least being able to go for a weapon you want more cleanly instead of having to just kinda farm shops on repeat in hopes of seeing weapons with good stat distributions AND being the weapons you want).

I dont disagree with you but good will doesn’t matter short term, nor does looking dickish. Go ingame and you’ll see everyone’s wearing a premium cosmetic. That’s money. They made more money than if they didn’t do the shop right away. That’s all that matters short term, which is all business tends to care about. Long term is usually viewed as a series of short term, so it’s effectively ignored.

Again, I agree that viewed very long term this kind of dooms a company to a terrible reputation and make people avoid it eventually. However suits dont give a frick, that’s 10 years in the future. 10 years doesn’t matter, they worry about this quarter, at most this fiscal year. Considering this is their priority, they’re acting 100% reasonably and logically.


And the part about 10 years (more like 3 or 4 from my experience) is the most important part.
I had my fair share of experience with “sustainable” business.
By that I mean, you can sell Hardware under water but YOU MUST secure supplies flow with 2 to 3 year contract (5 year is a pipe dream, HW will give out by then).

That’s why I don’t get it. Positive PR, good will and so and so is important to cover karkups or more risky endeavours that can and will happen but core strategy is to secure customer for longer engagement.
But now when I think of it maybe my X business analogy is not so great for gaming industry…



And ideas like that is how the game hit fail and you got your reputation.


Yeah… I don’t get retained by spending 20 hours of materials on weapons and have none of them be even useful at all to keep. I have better games that actually respect my time that I could play. I’m just frustrated that I love the core gameplay of this game but the crafting experience is so demoralizing to use is my issue.


Counterpoint: Several players I know personally have quit playing specifically because of it, and I’ve stopped interacting with it and bothering with crafting beyond just getting a basic set of high end workable gear for each class. I don’t try new weapons, I don’t grind new stuff.

In my experience, it absolutely does not do this, rather it actively discourages this.


I have friends who never even got a single character to 30 because they realized while leveling how absolutely garbage the crafting system is.


I’ve heard the theory from darktide youtubers that the crafting is so bad because for reasons unknown they want to remove crafting and use ‘people just stopped using it’ as a justification.

True? Just a guess? Who knows?

But the steadfast insistence on going down in flames instead of fixing it does speak volumes.


That would certainly be interesting, I wonder what they would put in in its place.

My hope is that the crafting system we have now is just a place holder. A cardboard dummy meant to stand there until they completed other work like the xbox release. I know that may seem hard to believe since a whole year has passed, but it’s honestly hard to believe how slowly development progresses at FS. I’m waiting with baited breath for the first real post from FS after their interminable holidays are over. What will it be? Xbox is done, anniversary content is done. Can they ignore crafting now that there is time to work on it? If so I’m completely out of here.

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Just before summer holidays will begin. :smirk:


Not everything. At least, and thanks for this, the weapons and damages done are not RNG… Or, it would have been the worst game ever…
Look at this. What is the part that everybody think is fun and is a success? combat.
The only part of the game with minimal RNG (chances of critics is the RNG part).

But as I said several times. I can live with their RNG I don’t like. However, they loose lot of people (casual and players that don’t want to spend lot of hours to start to play a game) by giving so few resources and making so hard to get a good base weapon.
That’s why I keep asking that something is done about Brunt… and I would not spit on an increase of materials we can found in missions.

Added the thread to the thread of threads.


Has anyone tried the “but if you let players have the godroll they wanted, they would just stop playing the game”?

The “crafting” system was basically just horrible multilayered rng designed to make darktide appear to have more content(by denying access to the top tier builds with rng) during early access.


Yes, this person did, just not saying it outright.

Thanks to Fatshark’s ‘retention’ practices they now have a game that has similar daily player counts as their 5 year old game that doesn’t have quite a frustating crafting system. Congrats, I guess.


Maybe looter shooter BS isn’t what makes these kind of games fun?

Last 30 days player avarage according to steam charts:
DT 7,126.0
L4D2 26,325.0

L4D2 hasn’t any of this crap and seems to have no retention problems.

I get your theory and it’s propably exactly what FS intended - but it’s not working - because chasing the carrot isn’t fun anymore once you realize you’ll never get it. Everytime Hadron bricks a great base weapon alittle DT enthusiasm in me dies. Those of my friends and family who still play simply ignore the crafting - because it’s anti-fun to engage with.

What keeps such a game alive is a steady flow of content - but with such an abysimal gambling system a huge part of possible content feels poisoned. New maps? Cool! New Enemies? Awesome! New weapons? Yeah no - maybe if I stumble anytime by accident over a decent base version I’ll bring it to Hadron and see if I get lucky - but that usually means that the first time a get a “new” weapon in a state I’d like to use it is months after it’s release. Nothing that gets me into playing more. A new character archetype? Meaning I have to gamble a whole new character together? Nothing I’m looking forward to.

The crafting is toxic for the game and doesn’t help with player retention as those who stay stay inspite of it - not because of it.


It’s not just itemisation that’s poisoned by the RNG. Whenever a new map comes out it reduces the mission pool variety for weeks and anecdotally quick playing into an empty lobby will usually be the new map too.


I am so kraking sick of people shoving this argument down my throat.

NO. NO. I am not going to leave if I get what I want. I didn’t leave Left 4 Dead when I didn’t get what I went (highlighting that you don’t even need a progression system in this genre for it to be successful). I didn’t leave DRG or Payday 2. Or Vermintide 2 after I had all the perfect weapons I wanted.

The only people making this claim are people projecting.

Case in point.

You like the continuous item grind and chase because YOU want the perfect stuff. Hence your defense of this system. But not everyone shares your perspective and wants your justifications shoved down their throat.

This is just such garbage, uncreative take in defense of a bad system.

Look at DRG and their use of seasonal cosmetic trees to keep people coming back. Payday 2 had a fire hose of achievements (with cosmetics attached) to work towards and a constant release of maps. Hell, Vermintide 2’s chaos waste system is amazing and it cuts out the games item system entirely! Instead we had randomized maps and endless variance to modifiers for missions and gear.

There are so many better things DT could to drive retention than to dig its heels in and keep a miserable system in place, which ironically is driving players away.


Yes, this is why they did it.

In some games, which don’t have a great gameplay loop, this is really the core gameplay, even. The skinner box is a very powerful thing.

But it does not work in 'tide games. The corpos you talk about it just don’t get it, they think “but the seminar/expert we paid $2 million to said it’d work, instead player count is nosediving!”

The people who just want to play casually will not chase the game as long as they want. The people who are really long-term players just want to play around and hate this system. It backfires because this game is not casual enough to keep a lot of attention - Warhammer is a niche hobby still. What’s more, the game is not very forgiving, and changing that will alienate their core audience.

This game really would have been best-served by having a CoD-style unlock system, ie unlock x weapon at y level, then get kills or w/e with it to unlock attachments. As for monetization, if FS could actually keep up with it content-wise, a battlepass with a free and paid tier would probably rake it in.

EDIT: And jeez, they could be just doing stuff like new hair styles, along with hats and things like that. If they had really gone in on the cosmetics, they could have let us customize so much more stuff, like pauldrons, eyewear separately from hats, add straps and purity seals and bandoliers and all kinds of things . . .

There could still even be crafting parts in levels. You could use these to be upgrading your weapon’s perks and blessings from tier 1 to 4.



You can add also that players that are not casual and not hardcore gamers can see the system as a wall that is restricting them to be able to enjoy the game.
And so, they can stop playing it.