IB lvl 25 talent row is quite bad

Ok, what do we have? 50% chance of getting stamina back when block is broken (50% means it’s random,) - horrible talent. Killing enemies when on full stamina regenerates ult faster - what’s the point of this one? It directly encourages to not use any of your stamina handicapping yourself effectively. Other classes regenerate ult by playing well. IB regenerates ult by playing sub-optimal.
And finally “heavy attacks - more stamina regen,” - this one is nice, unless you’re using weapons like 1h hammer that require a lot of stamina, but have absolutely useless charged attack when it comes to normal horde clear.
Thr ult regeneration should be replaced with something more in-line with IB’s talents and strengths. Maybe ult regenerates faster when you’re not taking damage for x seconds? Or for staggering enemies?

Anyway, overal IB is great, but IMO this game should have as many useful talents as possible.


Several talents across careers feels like placeholders until something more meaningfull will replace them…

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Just like the old talent tree.
The new tree looks like someone was given the design documentation and told to make new talents.
So that person had the idea for one build and then just slapped on the rest to fill the blanks.
In my opinion, since we only have 4 talents (the other 2 being mandatory - very bad design) they should interact or rely on each other more to call them actual build instead of just picking something from each line…


I think the Rolling Mountain mostly has its place.

However! This one?

This one sucks.

The other two are weird but I think

is alright.

Doesn’t synergize well with 1h hammer and 2h axe but it works with everything. For blocking you have a passive up every 20 (or 13) seconds that allow you to risk dodges. Push attacks aren’t universally good options in all situations in every weapon. For instance, the pickaxe’s push attack is awful in a horde as is the 1h axe. Wouldn’t use it for hordes with the 2h hammer either. Nor the 1h axe.

it’s a horde skill. 50 kills to a recharge. Will often be about 20-30 depending on how long that horde is. That’s nothing. You can recharge that 10 to 30 times over depending on your personal skill. Making it an amazing skill that augments an amazing career skill.

It having bad synergy with some weapons is a thing I can live with.

Remains a weird ability.

It was always weird but I just have no clue who gets to engage with it besides maybe dual hammers and the 2h axe. Like. What weapon do we have that gets to use this ability? Still
It’s an oddball talent that can work into some playstyles. I know some people who would die to keep this ability

Can’t say I agree but whatever.

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That ult cdr talent is great, though. It’s like the talent to pick if you want to not use a shield weapon (or maybe even with a shield, stamina regens fairly quickly). Pure reward for playing aggressively.

40% stam regen is great, too. Practically the lifeblood of shield users. Not being synergistic with 1h hammer or axe isn’t a problem.

Edit: I didn’t mention dawi defiance because I don’t disagree. It reads like it was meant to be a passive, but having your stamina depleted as an IB always seemed difficult to do since (ideally) you would pop an ult if you were in a situation that bad.


Like dannylew said: Miner’s Rhythm is basically the top choice for shield users. Playing axe n’shield depending on situation you can run out or low of stamina really fast. Just one or two shields bashes (charged attacks) and you have 4+ stamina again.

But yea, I don’t see much use for Daw Defiance, especially since it has a chance to not trigger at all.


I get that you can use it as a shield medipack but it’s offensive capabilities are quite low for something that has a conditional that depends entirely on you hitting something.

I guess if you’re just at the front of a horde holding block nonstop you could get some mileage. But with 30% stamina recovery I find it hard to run out. I think theoretically you could replace 30% with it and take crit more move speed but eh… ehhhh…

Holding just block will let you do nothing and is not a good way to play shield in my opinion. Usually you have to choices: Shield bash or Shield push which both stagger the enemy for your team to do the damage. Shield bash does not use stamina but takes longer and has a higher window for damage to get through. Shield push is faster and safer but wastes stamina. So if a fresh horde is coming at you in top speed Shield bash can not stop them.
For these situations you need to push up to four or five times in a row. More if there are elites in the mix. Then you have to consider that you get some attacks from the backrow or enemies not staggered and your stamina will be depleted. Although the loss by blocking is less than by pushing. I wouldnt recommand BCR on shields as you ideally don’t block at all unless active skill. So you have to mix in the Shield bashes to regain stamina which works quite well if you keep the right …. rhythm.

Aye, apart from shielded weapons it’s decent on dual hammers vs elites too as you need charged attacks or push attacks to damage them. It lets you get away with less heavies and more pushes there.

Generally I’d take Rolling Mountain over it though, the CDR on IB’s F is too good to pass up.

Aye, it’s a bad talent. Especially when Zealot has a talent that guarantees he gets all his stamina back if he takes damage, which is a flat out better mechanic as you get the stamina back always when you may need it.


It could be used with shield bashing, but I lived just fine without it.

Well, with even 1h axe it’s a good practice to spam pushes into horde. I mean, not with this talent.
I really hate talents that don’t work with many weapon combinations. And literally nothing synergizes with 1h hammer at lvl 25. It’s like “ok, you can use anything you want” unless it’s 1h hammer or unless you want to use your stamina - then sorry, no good talents here for you.

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The Rolling Mountain is awesome, dont know what you are talking about.

If you get a decent amount of melee kills it charges your ability quite quickly. That combined with the ability recharge you get when taking damage is what makes us so stupidly durable.

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Others have pretty much voiced my opinions here, too, but I’ll still say them myself. Miner’s Rhythm is good on any weapon that uses both pushes and heavy attacks regularly, namely either shield. It’s a bit niche, but it has its place. Rolling Mountain works well with any aggressive weapon that you don’t use to push often; Dual Hammers, War Pick and 2-H Hammer come to mind immediately. Dawi Defiance, though…

If you get tho the situation where your block gets broken, you either blocked a heavy attack (which happens often enough, but dodging is usually preferable) or you’re in deep crap already. In the first situation, Defiance isn’t likely to matter much as the situation is still under control and you can do something else to recover. In the latter situation it can help immensely, but 50% chance is nowhere enough to rely on it and if it fails, you’re in even deeper crap than before, so it ends up being an unreliable backup in a situation you’d much rather avoid.

A higher chance, say 70-80%, would give it high enough chance to activate that it could be somewhat reliable and could be used to drive oneself to block exhaustion more often, but would still have a significant chance of failure, so you wouldn’t want to rely on it all the time. It’d still be an all-or-nothing ability, though, and would cause one to be in deep trouble when it fails. Another way to change it (or balance it) would be to change the actual Stamina recovery. It could be reliable, up to 100%, but only recover half your Stamina and/or be limited to one proc between each time your stamina recovers naturally.


Too bad it requires me to avoid using pushes, and that is simply stupid, Ironbreaker should use pushes tp help his team. With 1h hammer push + 2 light attack combo is the main horde-clear tool.
And this combo makes the talent absolutely useless since you’re almost always below full stamina.
It’s like a talent forcing Waystalker to avoid melee or BH to avoid shooting - pushing is your bread nad butter, no matter the weapon, and pushing consumes stamina.
Yes, this talent is useful for some builds (2h hammer anyone, with 2h axe it’s OK too), and the best from the row, so it pretty much forces you to make certain weapon choices if you want to spam ult.
I love 2h hammer. But I want to have some more choice and while 1h hammer absolutely works, it’s not really supported by any of lvl 25 talents, and that is just bad.

Miner’s Rhythm is core to several weapons, including shields and 2h axe.

Rolling Mountain is nice to have if you don’t need MR, but it doesn’t make or break anything it’s just a consolation prize.

Dawi Defiance is nice on bots since it gives them a chance to not die a horrible death as quickly, but honestly that’s it’s only use and it’s not very good even at that. True garbage talent. Replace with “resets Gromril Armor if your block is broken (60s cooldown)” which gives it great synergy with the tier above it.

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Well, yet it doesn’t work at all with 1h hammer and neither do the pther 2 talents. Actually I really like the idea of Gromril reset. But IMO the “kill on full stamina” is just a bad idea, even if the talent works. It really encourages bad gameplay. And as a matter of fact, pushing is almost always a good idea.
I even wiped today because I was so busy avoiding using push I hesitated too long and got surrounded and beaten to death while push attack would open up a road to safety.

In other words - talent gives you clear benefits, but encourages to play in a suboptimal way.

I feel like you really have a misunderstanding of how stamina regen works. Stamina regens very quickly if you don’t run completely dry. Even more so if you are playing with a Handmaiden and/or stamina regen on trinkiet. To the point where if you use a push on on a group of enemies and then start attacking them, if it takes more than one hit for you to kill the mob, your stamina will have recharged fully, and you will get ult regen. Try it the next time you are fighting a horde. It is especially good against beastmen horde, in combination with the increased damage dealt during ult talent.

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I’m playing IB, not HM. hM gets +100% base stamina regen. IB gets +0 base stamina regen. When I’m using 1h hammer standard combo, I constantly land below max stamina, once I regain it, 1st thing I do is push attack or 2, then 2 light attacks, then push attack again. As a result, Ult regeneration talent does not work at all.
It’s just that simple. Each time I make a push with a hammer, my next swing does not count. Ths current mechanics of this talent simply encourage bad gameplay, because not using stamina is not the right way to play IB.

“if you are playing with a Handmaiden”, not “if you are playing as Handmaiden.” I tried to be nice in my first post but you are just being dense for the sake of argument. The talent is massively overpowered. You can regenerate your ult several times over per horde, while maintaining good uptime on staggers through pushes. If you want video proof, I’d be happy to oblige, but I’m sure even then you’ll find some excuse to keep arguing your point.

Also, Handmaiden gets 100% increased stamina regen over normal, which is the same as saying double regen not 100% vs 0%. Every class has a base stamina regen of a significant amount. If you play with stamina regen on trinket, you can increase it even more, which you should, because it is by far the best stat on that item for IB, and pretty much every career for that matter.

If I’m dense, then what about you? I guess you should have created a black hole with your sheer lack of any logical thinking. Thanks for insulting me, but I guess that’s the problem with people like you, who fail to comprehend what they’re reading.
Seriously, do you even read, bro?
I’m not saying the talent can’t work - it does work, just not for 1h hammer, when the right attack pattern (best) completely ellimintes swinging with full stamina.
But even when you’re using a weapon, that works right with it, you are… still encouraged to not use stamina. Every push attack victim does not count. Make 2 pushes and 2 attacks? Oh sorry, talent doesn’t work. Only if you severly limit the number of pushes, you’re getting the full benefit.
So again, mr “I can’t read” - the talent directly encourages bad gameplay while IB should not be afraid to use most of the stamina whenever the opportunity seems right. Right now PROPER stamina usage means you are getting punished with longer cooldown.
Do you get it? I think not.
And again - you used HM as an example, HM regenerates stamina twice as fast. So any point based on her performance is a point that does not apply.

I’m quite sure you still won’t get it, sp I’ll just ignore your whiny insults and wait till some properly mannered user responds to the topic.