Temp HP on kill vastly inferior to "the other" talent on some classes

Ok, so some classes have temp HP on stagger, some have temp HP on cleave, others have temp HP on headshot/crit.
And they all work fairly well.
But only for certain builds of certain classes. While others have to suffer because talents are not really class specific - temp HP on kill grants you the same amount whether you are Ironbreaker or Shade.

Let me explain - Ironbreaker can use temp HP on stagger with 2h hammer and both shield combos. Maybe even 1h hammer. And they allow you to get a ton of temp HP - so apparently IB scoring temp HP is a good thing according to Fatshark.
But 2h axe doesn’t really stagger rats and fanatics. It either kills them or damages. Yes, it can stagger CW, stormvermin etc. And guess what - the game doesn’t give a damn whether you stagger CW or slave rat. Stagger is stagger, here, have this 0,something of HP.
So I’m forced to use HP on kill and IB is NOT as good at killing stuff fast as other classes, so creating a proper “temp HP shield” is often impossible (and drakefire pistols are the true “horde clearers” anyway). All of this while it takes me a few seconds to create 40HP temp health shield with WHC or Zealot, Handmaiden, Slayer (these are the classes I sometimes play). With IB my “permanent” health is usually my shield in case things go south. So yeah, I’m getting better and better at dodging and generally avoiding dmg, but as IB I feel rather inclined to get between my teammates and danger, even if that means taking a hit here and there. With the bad temp HP generation talent, well, this does not work as well as it used to (I love new barkskin though :stuck_out_tongue: ).

So I see 2 solutions to the problem (I think 1st one is simplier):

  • make talents work in a more reasonable way - staggering CW is usually more important task than staggering 5 slaverats. 2h Axe can do the former while it sucks at the latter, with 2h hammer it’s the other way around. So simply - make the amount of HP on stagger relative to the “mass” of staggered target. So staggering CW > staggering mauler > staggering stormvermin etc. - similiar to the HP on kill - in other words, make 2h “killing” weapons like the axe also a viable source of temp HP on stagger to appreciate that they are used to stagger big bad dudes that can possibly 1-shot players who make a mistake
  • make talents really class specific -f.e. IB gets slightly more HP from THP on kill, because he’s not a killing machine and the THP on kill is chosen not because we like it, but because the other talent is even worse!

I don’t want to be shoehorned into 1 specific build for my class because of THP talent choice, and right now the difference in efficiency of THP talents is very, very heavily dependant on the weapon you’re using.

On-kill is designed to rewards taking out high-value targets in melee. It doesn’t really work on anyone who doesn’t deal particularly well with Elites or doesn’t go after them in particular - in melee. That means that Slayer (with the full melee gimmick and useful weapons) and Shade (with her Career Skill and good melee weapons for the purpose) are the primary candidates for its effective use, with others losing out because either their kit is meant primarily for other things (IB) or because they take out those high-value targets on range (HS). Which makes the Talent’s inclusion on these careers somewhat questionable. I understand the want to sprinkle either option around, but still, some end up far less used or nearly useless on several Careers.

There is a similar issue with all ranged-focused Careers (which I actually mentioned during the Beta discussions) in that they often aren’t effective enough at melee to (somewhat) safely generate their temp health buffer, as their fragility gives little room for error. At the same time, they’re still quite capable of sustaining their ammo and thus keeping safely at range, with even less need to go melee through that. So when they end up getting damaged, the prudent course of action is to draw to the backlines and keep shooting even more (and more carefully) instead of going to melee to gain more. While this does bring the healshare Talent to the forefront, I still think removing temp health generation completely from ranged was a mistake.

4 Likes

NVM.

I didn’t read through the whole thing.

I can’t bring myself to play breaker.

I think that temp on kill is pretty OP atm (on zealot and slayer).

Well, then try the HP on cleave on Zealot and Slayer (if I remember correctly, both have it), cause it simply works even better.
Temp HP on stagger also works wonders on IB with certain weapons. But axes are not those. And this makes axe-builds for IB heavily suboptimal - this doesn’t mean they don’t work of course. But they are simply worse than other classes in game that can be both tanky and kill things faster (yes, Slayer can take a ton of dmg and survive if you choose the right talents).

completely agree, when low on health, you want temp health so you go melee. Now that you have some temp health, there’s no good reason to shoot things because then you’ll end up with no temp health again

Kill on heal is perfectly working on IB
1 hand axe, 2 hand axe can kill sv with 1 head 1 body shot (both you need charged attack)
Also their infantry damage is insane so mauler will be your snack too
2hand hammer and 1 hand hammer(charge only) also can do this
Also warpick, which can kill all one shot special and elite if you have witch hunter (though you need to crit for cw)
Everything really works well and if you do harder better faster deed, warpick with ib + witch hunter can recover temp hp real quick
Becuz you are the only one can kill sb with 1 bodyshot

IB is great at killing specials and elites except he’s slower at it than all elven careers (glaive), WHC, Zealot, Merc Kruber, Slayer, which means pretty much all melee careers will get more THP from THP on killl…

…which is still less than they are getting from other THP talents, especially since the horde consists mostly of low-tier enemies. With THP on crit you can also gain a ton on boss. It doesn’t meN THP on kill doesn’t work, but it’s vastly inferior, especially on IB, who shouldn’t concentrate on chasinf elites, but on generally controling the enemy population and allowing designated DPS characters to work in peace.

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