I think Hedge’s hiatus from Vermintide subreddit is unjustified

A few months ago, reddit user JMartell77 made a comment on the Vermintide subreddit saying;

“So at this point it’s a safe bet they are just going to be absolutely f*cking lazy and never give us actual new armors.”

To which Hedge replied;

“Your bet is not safe. You might find stuff in game files, but there’s also stuff you wont find in there.”

Basically saying, that the game would get armors that weren’t in the game files, i.e. completely new armor and cosmetics (atleast that is how I would interpret it). Well, as we all know by now, the DLC launched and it contained nothing but lazy re-skins and re-colourings of already existing cosmetics and illusions, along with two new maps.

A few hours ago, reddit user calls_you_nouns made this post on the subreddit, basically calling out Hedge on his comment, that explicitly said that the game would get totally new skins and cosmetics, which it obviously didn’t.

Out comes Hedge, in the comment thread, and states (two separate comments;

¯_(ツ)_/¯
I still stand by my original comment anyhow. reddit gonna reddit though. We’re the bad guys.

The comment I answered was:
“So at this point it’s a safe bet they are just going to be absolutely f*cking lazy and never give us actual new armors.”
It was noted there that we would never give you actual new armors.
I replied as such:
"Your bet is not safe. You might find stuff in game files, but there’s also stuff you wont find in there.
and I stand by that. People wonder why a lot of devs aren’t transparent? Well, you can see in this thread why they’re not. Did I give a time line? No."
People ask for time lines, we give them and miss them for any reason? We’re the worst.
People ask for information without time lines, well they’re going to invent one that meets a narrative and throw up when their narrative isn’t met. It’s ridiculous.
edit: fixed typo
edit 2: I’ll be taking a self imposed hiatus from the sub. Will be hanging out on the Steam and the Fatshark forums and various discord channels and happy to answer questions there. Thanks.

Sigh. There is so much in there that one can criticize to the end of earth and back. Let’s try and break it down from top to bottom.

“reddit gonna reddit though. We’re the bad guys”

Yes, reddit is gonna reddit, and calling you out on your bs when you objectively stated that we would get new armors and cosmetics, and the DLC that was 4 months delayed didn’t have any of it, isn’t a “bad” thing to do. It’s what fans, and costumers and consumers are supposed to do when a company doesn’t do what they promised. And yes, further down you said that your comment never specified cosmetics for 1.2, and the release of the Bögenhafen DLC. But I think it’s fair to say that 95% of people that read your comment saying that entirely new armor and cosmetics were coming, would assume that atleast some of that would be in the next DLC, you know, the DLC you delayed for 4 moths. So either A, you deliberately made a DLC with absolutely nothing new, hoping people wouldn’t notice it was all a palette-swap. Or B, you didn’t have time to implement new cosmetics in a DLC you delayed by 4 months, which might actually be worse than option A, as it just reeks of the mismanagement going on over at Fatshark right now.

And also, yes, you are the bad guys in this. It’s not just reddit that says that, almost everyone I’ve actually spoken to about this (I have over 40 Steam friends playing this game), people on the forums, and yes, people on the Steam forums, are saying how awful Bögenhafen was, and they are saying that you have no idea what you are doing, and they are pointing out the bible of bugs, and other issues. That’s not just reddit. Reddit is actually the one place where alot of people have discussions, objective arguments and facts in their posts. And you have the audacity to label them all as people who “mindlessly” call you bad guys? Grow up, if you have to actually quit on reddit because you think people are to negative towards your game there, then maybe the game have a fair few problems you need to fix? Just maybe?

The comment I answered was:
" So at this point it’s a safe bet they are just going to be absolutely fcking lazy and never give us actual new armors.*"
It was noted there that we would never give you actual new armors."
I replied as such:
"Your bet is not safe. You might find stuff in game files, but there’s also stuff you wont find in there.
and I stand by that. People wonder why a lot of devs aren’t transparent? Well, you can see in this thread why they’re not. Did I give a time line? No."

Well, here’s the thing, and you might not have realized it, but it is because you didn’t give a timeline this will come back and bite you. Had you said that the next DLC wouldn’t have new cosmetics, but instead said that the DLC after that would, you would still have people pretty pissed (because a DLC that is 4 months too late didn’t offer anything new), but atleast we would know what we would get. However, since you very sneakily left out a timeline, you thought you could use that as a defence. If a developer, or their PR-rep, says that there will be new cosmetics, but not specifying when, 95% of your customers will assume that it’s the next thing coming, maybe in that overly delayed DLC you have right around the corner? Well apparently not. The fact that you didn’t realize this, is a fundamental flaw for a PR-rep. I’m not saying you are bad at your jobb, I am, however, saying you should realize how the industry works by now. If you don’t give a timeframe, people will take it to mean “as soon as possible”.

Besides, your statement you made after the fact isn’t even objectively true, is it? It’s all well and nice that you can go back on what you meant, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that you, and some other dude, during the launch stream of the DLC, claimed, on Twitch, that there were new cosmetics in this DLC. Which is false, re-skins and re-colorings aren’t new cosmetics. Imagine making Krubers skincolor green in the game, would that be adding a new character? No, it would be changing an already existing character. You are not adding anything, at best you are changing what’s already there (I Mean, there were just a goddamned mod released that let you do it for free, to any color you wanted, aswell. And you tried to sell it as “new”)
I think, what happened was, you, and the rest of Fatshark, didn’t even imagine in your wildest dreams the pushback against you for releasing a DLC that’s been delayed by 4 months, and only having re-colorings in it. And because you didn’t have any idea, you probably thought people wouldn’t really notice, you went around making statements that the game would get new armors and whatnot.
I would love for this not being true, I have gone around, even in the days where I’ve been the most angry and critical to how you treat Vermintide 2, saying that I don’t think it’s down to maliciousness from your part, but rather the fact that you bit of more than you could chew. But if it’s true, that you deliberately called re-coloring for “new” cosmetics, and then after the fact went back on that. Then I have no choice but to suspect serious maliciousness from you unto your costumers, in the same way EA, or Activision, does.

“People ask for time lines, we give them and miss them for any reason? We’re the worst.
People ask for information without time lines, well they’re going to invent one that meets a narrative and throw up when their narrative isn’t met. It’s ridiculous.”

Was it people that asked for you to put out a roadmap of the first DLC, and dedicated servers, when you released the game? I don’t think so, I think you did that, so why on holy mother earth do you get angry on us for your own company screwing up? Because that is exactly what Fatshark is doing now, on every, possible, front; screwing up. It’s sad, but true. latest DLC, while having two pretty good maps (I once made a statement that they weren’t very good, I take it back, my statement was mostly due to Blightreaper not even working in the beta), is a disaster on every other front. 66+ weeks to get all the re-coloring you made, and on top of that having to pay 8€ for the privilege of grinding over 2 hours everyday of the week, for over a goddamn year, to get for what we payed for, in the form of one cosmetic per week.
And we also have the fact that this game is so broken, down to it’s very core, that for every issue you “fix”, you break the other half of the game. And it’s been like that since the BETA. The BETA of the main game, that started at the beginning of this year, and it still isn’t fixed. And you went like 3 months without a bug fix, because you were working on this “super patch” that would rework everything, so that these issues would be solved, and you failed. It didn’t work. We went 3 months without patching only to get the 1.2 update that made the game break again. You literally, can’t use the rapier right now because of phantom swings. The game crashes on switching careers, the game looses connection to the backend when opening up goddamn boxes. The director AI still only spawn duplicate specials, an issue I myself reported in the closed beta on these very forums, and it supposedly were fixed, until it broke again. If you can’t make the engine work, then ask a modder to do it. Swallow your non-existent pride and ask someone else to atleast have a look, to help you, like some other game companies have had to do, in the past. Because you evidently can’t fix the issues yourself.

Also, I believe saying that “missing” a DLCs release by 4 months because of any reason is simply not possible. There has to be a fair few, pretty big, reasons as to why you’d miss a date by 4 months. This is an industry where develoeprs get death threats (extremely unfortunate) for missing something by a few weeks, at most, and you think people wouldn’t get a tiny bit upset when you missed a date by 4 months? I can have sympathy with you, because you clearly have issues on every front in developing this game. But if I were in your shoes, I would atleast have given a partial explanation as to why a DLC were delayed. You know, a PR-reps job, to uphold public relations. Going silent for 4 months then coming out guns blazing towards your own fans because they ask how on earth you managed to delay something 4 months, is not what a PR-rep is supposed to do. Your supposed to explain, and if the reason, somehow, is highly secret and confidential, atleast say something vague. Don’t be completely quiet about it. That’s not going to help at all.

edit 2: I’ll be taking a self imposed hiatus from the sub. Will be hanging out on the Steam and the Fatshark forums and various discord channels and happy to answer questions there. Thanks.

And there is the biggest sin of them all, the PR-rep steps away from his duty becuase people aren’t being saints when Fatshark screws up. I wonder why people get pissed, I wonder why your game have gone from “very positive” on Steam to “mixed” in the recent reviews, I wonder why your DLC launched with “mixed” reviws on Steam. Could it be becasue you aren’t as great as you seem to think you are, Hedge? Could it be because costumers want to be treated with respect, at the very least? And you, haven’t acknowledged almost any of the issues brought up, on reddit, or even here on the forums? Yes, it’s very nice that you say you will make the acquisition of Bögenhafen items easier, but that isn’t anyway near enough, in my humble opinion. I want to know how you were thinking to implement a system like that in the first place, I want to know what you will do instead. I also want to have your view on the entire “weekly-challenge” disaster, that is still in the game, answers on the “inventory space”-issue, the already mentioned phantom swings, performance issues, all the issues. But you have given no answers. I wonder why people get upset? Such a mystery.

And walking out on the most active community you have won’t solve anything. It will only make things a lot worse. Just because people aren’t praising your very existance, doesn’t mean they are just trolling you, or hating on you because it’s fun. Almost all of the top voted criticisms on the subreddit are all very valid, many of them are well reasoned, and well written. And I, frankly, find it insane that you would walk away from that because you can’t handle your own companies mismanagement of the game. People on reddit aren’t, like you make it sound, making up problems, conjuring out statements, from you, out of the blue, or just trolling you. They are trying to help this game, the reason people submit long posts on the subreddit, isn’t to hurt your game, it’s to try and help you. Do you really not understand that? Anyone that actually read those posts would understand it. And it’s always reinforced in the comments, people saying they are only trying to help you. Do you have the audacity to say that Fatshark doesn’t need help with this game? You have no clue in heaven what you are doing with it. You need all the help you can get. You need all the opinions you can get. So walking out from the subreddit is just pettiness. Grow up, jesus christ. Just because everyone doesn’t treat you like gods in their criticism, doesn’t mean they are malicious towards you. I’ve said it before, I can say it again; If people take the time out of their, probably, busy life, to write about your game, and say what they want improved, and discussing the bugs they find, then they probably care. And now you will simply ignore the 50k people on the subreddit, because you think they aren’t “fair” towards you. Well, holy cow, it reminds me of a child ignoring their parent because they can’t have candy on a wednesday.

It’s best you don’t forget, you wouldn’t even have a job if it wasn’t for all those of us who bought the first game, and continued to support it by buying DLC.s even though it was a buggy mess. You wouldn’t have a job if we didn’t continue to support you when you released VT2, and despite the sheer ignorance from you on half the games issues, despite the lies and bs you told pre-release, saying you would have dedicated servers a month after launch, promising the PC version wouldn’t get put aside in favor of the console ports, and you delaying a two map DLC by 4 goddamn months without any reasoning to it, idiots like myself are still spending hours on these forums, hours on the subreddit and by now nearly a goddamn hour writing this damn post, because we care about the game. And you just ignoring us every single day, and now just signing off from the subreddit because you got a bit tired of us, is pathetic. The amount of times I must’ve said this in the last few months, but holy cow, Fatshark, start to act responsible for you releasing a game that were broken. Act responsible for your own silence in a time where you should have been as open as possible, and act responsible for your game, when it finally seems it would get somewhat of a revival, with a mega-patch and a new DLC, not even bringing in 10% of the population. It’s noones but your own fault that this game right now is on the thread of simply dying off. Stop trying to blame the forums. A community manager that doesn’t manage the community is completely worthless, and even if you like reddit or not, it seems as if you have some pre-existing malice towards reddit (which in itself is weird), your goddamn job title basically requires you to take into concideration your own community. Just 24 hours ago you wrote this on reddit;

We’re happy to receive criticisms. This post is a much clearer / fairer post and I thank you for the clarification. Expanded commentary is much more useful to me and my job and the studio as a result than calling me a liar directly.

Proving that A, reddit is helpful, and B, you take in alot of the criticism leveld at you, on reddit. Good, then you wrote this;

edit: This sub used to be constructive in their critiques and as such resulted in a much healther working environment for those who frequented it and fostered an environment where we could parse criticisms and put them in a list of things to look at. Maybe we’re to blame in part, and in part it comes from now being a much larger audience in the sub and with it came people who just don’t know how to communicate their frustrations healthily and usefully.

Which is an objective lie. The subreddit didn’t “use to be constructive”, it is constructive, for the most part. Everyone on there isn’t, some people just think it’s fun to hate, but most don’t. Most write constructive things on there. You cannot come and say that isn’t the case any longer. Since the release of the DLC’ I’ve been on that subreddit every single day, and every day I find constructive posts. This either proves that you jsut want an “excuse” to get away from there, or it proves you don’t even visit the subreddit. Just because a few people doesn’t dance in line with your every move doesn’t mean what they are saying isn’t constructive. The DLC didn’t bring in “a much larger audience” to the subreddit. If anythink it increased the number of constructive posts. And those posts are “well communicated”. A Damn lot better communicated then any communication coming from your own goddamn company. 3 months of absolutely nothing and you have the audacity to say that we can’t communicate. That makes me more angry than any DLC you could’ve ever put out. That subreddit is one of the better mannered in the gaming space, don’t come and pretend otherwise.

I think the basis of it is that you, a late evening, got tired of reading just another critical post, and you just snapped. Understandable, perhaps, but still un-professional. Take the critcism to hearth instead. I don’t think you’ve done that for a long, long time. It has taken you until, what, yesterday, to realize that you maybe should fix the red duplicate-issue. Not until yesterday did you say that having red dust may not be such a bad idea. The trophy system is nowhere to be seen, dedicated servers don’t seem to ever happen (which honestly might just warrant everyone a refund), game breaking bugs, glitches and connection errors. Maybe it’s time to open up to why this game has all these issues, instead of remaining silent about everything, and hoping that people will magically forget. Grow up and act like adults, Fatshark. Stop pretending everything is happy times, it’s more like the end times for you, whether you realize it or not.

Thank you.

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I have to say I’m on Hedge’s side on this. As the primary community representative, his words in various channels will be checked and stuck to. And as with anything anyone says, they can be inferred to mean something they were not, and even downright twisted in their meaning. That makes his job a difficult one.

I haven’t been following the Reddit side fro long enough to actually know what it has been like before, in VT1’s times. But What i have seen is “common” opinion fluctuating a lot, and people essentially being on one huge bangwagon lot of the time. Reddit’s downvote/upvote system also gets abused, as while some comments that’ve been downvoted to hiding have actually been worth that with hate and abuse, some seem to simply be contrary to the communal opinion of the moment. The threads were full of hate during the summer silence, then as the DLC was announced and the Beta pushed out, it shifted to joy, then as 1.2 was released, things shifted back to the more negative side (although with a sideline of “horrible DLC, good patch”) I also find the worse hate-threads being close to Steam’s level, even if Reddit also sees several of the more sensible users. While it’s less clear, similar fluctuations are visible here too.

And frankly, Reddit is still at best a semi-official communication channel, being maintained fully by fans. There is even less obligation for anyone from the company to be present there than elsewhere.

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Maybe I’m a pedantic linguist but he never stated that there will be armors. The fact that this delayed DLC, which you don’t have to buy, doesn’t have any new armors doesn’t mean that there WON’T be any new armors.

Don’t know if you realized this, but Fatshark is an indie developer. My bet is that the selling of VT2 came with such a huge unexpected success that it was not possible for them to hold all their promises. At least they try to communicate with their community and even gave us a roadmap, which now backfires to them with people complaining that the DLC is 4 months late, ggwp. No one bats an eye about what they already did for us, as they said? Like complete mod support? I think they pushed this out now out now because of monetary problems and will release the next DLC, which hopefully satisfy all of you, for free.

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Glitches? Don’t use them.
Connection errors? Nearly non-existent to most people. Also there is a high possibility that the fault is on your side.

Game-breaking bugs? Now I’d like you to be more precise on that, never seem to experience these.

For you and the other spoiled brats: Practice what you preach.

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=

???

If you want to give some feedback… do it…

If you want to cristicm FS… do it…

But to cry about 1 employee there is definately not cool. If you want , that FS should “grow up and act like adults”, you should start it on your own. All in this post is a mess and “mimimi”.
You don´t have to like FS, you don´t have to like their work and especially not the game or the DLC.

But stop that prejudices against Hedge or someone else there. I´m not glad about everything too and that´s the reason , why i dot play that often like i did in the past.
FS did mistakes and they know it, but they still work on that game. It´s obvious, that the game can´t hold that hype. Just look at steam. About 75% unlocked a talent point, so 25% of the game - owners played 1-3 runs and left it. The next fact is “PVE”. You can´t patch so much content, that players will have 1000h “new stuff” to explore for 20€. That´s impossible. Oh and the DLC - maps are available for everyone without any cent. Maps > cosmetics…

I won´t defend FS here, that´s just my own opinion and i definately don´t like ppl, who can´t think about stuff, before they start raging everywhere. Stop playing and supporting Vermintide, if you feel betrayed and act like this.

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You are correct, and I can understand the symptahy. But in my opinion, since it’s his job to be the community manager, he should be able to manage the community.
Here’s the thing about Fatshark as of now, and please say if you disagree, but they barely communicate with anyone at all, regarding almost anything. There is a big list of issues regarding this game, that we, the community, simply don’t know anything about, or have any clue as to how Fatshark is going to tackle it.
For Hedge, I can absolutely understand the difficult position he must be in, when people ask him “How you going to deal with A, B, C…” without him being allowed to answer, for whatever reason. But you should acknowledge the issues, but Fatshark doesn’t even do that, the very basic. I, who spend alot of time on the subreddit, and on this forum, have no idea if they have even acknowledged the phantom swing issue that came up after 1.2. I couldn’t say, and that is the biggest issue. Because they neeed to communicate.

Then you can’t simply walk off from your biggest plattform. Like Hedge did. I mean, do you, he, or anyone expect people not to get salty when they get literally 0 information in regards to almost anything. Ofcourse people get angry. If alot of issues keep being brought up on reddit, that to me says that a PR-rep should acknolwedge those issues, of course people are going to bring up the same issues over and over if you pretend they don’t exist, like Fatshark do. I just can’t symphathise with Fatshark, at all, on this. It’s been to much bs, to much sheer ignorance and to much ingonring on their part for me to feel sorry for them, even if a few bad eggs on reddit is misbehaving. You apparently have a different view on the matter, and that’s good. Glad everyone aren’t the same in everything. But to me it’s the most obvious thing ever that people get upset when a game developer ignores them and then tries to sell them a DLC with so many design-flaws that it’s a miracle it went live when it did.

He did state there would be, right here;

Reading that should make it obvious that he said there will be new cosmetics, he never said when, as I ackowledged, but he said there would be.

I did realize this, I also know that money can’t vanish into thin air. They still sold those 2m+ copies of the game, and they should still have the money from them, so they shouldn’t be having money issue, at all.
Also, how does selling more copies than you anticipate make you screw up your promises? I want you to explain that, because I don’t understand it. If they feel comfortable promising a DLC, for example, 1 month after the release, surely selling twice as many copies as you thought you would, shouldn’t impact your promise. If anything it should make it easier for you to hold your promises, since you get more resources. If Fatshark have money problems now, it’s becasue they sent all their money to a bank in switzerland. There is no way that they would have financial problems otherwise.

If you get stuck in terrain, that’s a glitch. It’s not something you “use”, it’s something that can happen to you. You seem to be thinking of exploits, not the same thing.

I have a 300mb/s up and down fiber connection. If I am having issues, it’s because the game doesn’t work. Just because you haven’t had any backend errors, doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Not to many days ago I saw loads of people report backend errors here on the forums. So they definitely exist. Saying they aren’t real because you don’t have them is like saying some people don’t starve becuase you have food.

Sure, here’s an example. Everyone but you dying on the end of The pit. So they all respawn on the opposite side of a gate you can’t open unless all 4 are alive. Meaning you can’t complete the map. That counts as a gamebreaking bug in my book, you maybe think it’s supposed to be that way.
Also, the very same day the DLC launched, I played a run of Into the darkness, where the scripting for the end failed, thus making it impossible to complete, I’d also count that as a game breaking bug, maybe you have a different opinion.
You could also argue that weapons like rapier now not being able to hit anything is a gamebreaking bug. Maybe you think it’s intended. I really don’t know.
And once again, just because you haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. There are loads of pictures, videos and posts on these issues, they are clearly real. I don’t make things up, despite what you think,

Yeah, im spoiled, I agree. A lifetime of playing game that works on release have spoiled me.

Here’s what my post means; Hedge leaves reddit because people on reddit complain about Fatshark as a whole. I think that’s irresponsible behaviour from Hedge, because the arguments against Fatshark (as a whole, not one dude) tend to be pretty on the nose.
When I type Fatshark, I mean the company Fatshark, not one person. You didn’t seem to realize that. I’m sorry if the post is confusing, It tends to get that way when you spend 1.5 hours writing.

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I’d like to say that even the post on reddit I’ve heard about that I have ‘left’ reddit, as well as this mirror thread here, is also taking what I said and twisting it in to a false-hood. I noted I was taking a hiatus from reddit :slight_smile:

image

I spend 7 days a week without a break poring through commentary and yesterday was the day I decided that I would take some time out from just one location where commentary is raised, and I think it should be fairly obvious why. I am thick skinned and take pride in being able to soak in murky waters and going to bed and still be able to get some sleep. Thankfully I can almost always disconnect my own life from my work one. Almost. In order to continue being able to do that, I just needed to step away from the murk for a while and spend more time embracing our own channels where, lately, commentary has been more valuable to me, to us.

Regarding phantom swings:

Regarding end game not triggering for some players:

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Hedge did his job very well

he is most devout one fatshark has imo

just… other guys like designer or programmer or QA did wrong

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That kinda is the bane of any community manager: You have to take the blame for everything that went wrong.

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Hello Hedge.
First things first, I like to make it explicitly clear that I have nothing against you. I don’t know you on a personal level. I’m sure you are a great guy.
What I wanted to do with this post, is criticise the fact that you decided to walk away from the communities biggest plattform, and why I found that to be an irresponsible thing to do, for the reason that people dare to speak up their mind on a few things. However;

So I stand corrected, I will openly admit that I took hiatus to mean “I’m out of here for good”. However, you are saying that is not the case, and I’m glad to hear it. The thing is that I felt you glosses over so much of the well reasoned, argumentative and thought out posts on the subreddit when you decided to leave because, as it seemed to me, you no longer felt the subreddit was good enough. Based on this;

I dont think that’s an unfair assessment. But you are only taking a break, good.

I’m also glad to see some confirmation on a few issues, but I will still argue that there are lots of stuff you don’t give any answer to. Do you disagree? I realize you can’t give away everything going on over at Fatshark, but you could atleast give us updates on some things. Dedicated servers, for example? I’ve been asking almost every dev-stream, and the only answe I’ve been given is “more info soon”, well that was quite some time ago. And we don’t have any answers. What exactly are you waiting for? If I may ask? Either it’s happening, in which case you can say it’s happening, or it’s not happening, in which case you can say, it isn’t happening because… whatever.

Why won’t you just be abit more open, especially concerning features that you advertised the game to have. We live in a modern, things go wrong, and while people like myself, who have been playing the game since the closed test, would probably be a bit upset fora few days, most of us tend to calm down.

Regarding this, noone in the world should work 7 days a week dude. Don’t they give you the weekends of? You want me to make a post about how Fatshark mistreats their employees? Jokes aside, I’m impressed you work that much, and with that in mind, I can understand people criticising you, or your company, can get annoying.
I want to make it very clear though, that most of us, don’t criticise becasue it’s “fun”. We do it, as I tried to make very clear, because we care. And when we get upset because of radio silence, it’s because we want to know what’s going on.
Do you know what game I have as my favorite on Steam?
PNG
It’s there, because I give a damn. And me spending over an hour and a half writing a post like this isn’t me spreading hate, it’s me trying to get through to you. In this case, it was me thinking you leaving the subreddit was unresponsible, that was before I knew you only took a shorter break. The last post I did, it was me criticising the way the weeklies were handled. And I still think it’s poorly handled, but that isn’t on you.
And as some people have pointed out, I have some swear words in the post, and use some stupid terminology, and perhaps that is stupid and irresponsible of me, but at the same time, when I went in school we were taught that hyperboles where a good thing.

In short, I’m glad you aren’t turning a blind eye to any side of the community. I hope we’ll hear some news soon, regarding anything (dedicated servers perhaps? :slight_smile: )
Have a nice one.

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Hedge leaves Vermintide subreddit because people have the audacity to call Fatshark out on their BS

Your bias is shown plain the topic. You couldn’t come up with a more neutral topic? If he wasn’t explicitly paid to do community management in r/Vermintide I sure as hell would steer clear of it if I was Hedge. Seeing as he is able to take a hiatus I expect he’s not obligated to participate.

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I’m biased towards one thing only; and that is the consumer. If Fatshark did nothing but consumer friendly things, I would reflect that, If they only do anti-consumer stuff, I reflect that (in the title of this post).
What do you suggest I would’ve used instead?

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You single out a single employee for doing something he is allowed to do for reasons that are completely justified given the toxicity of the environment? I’d suggest you’d be biased towards being a reasonable human being.

Edit: Also never mind the mischaracterization that is the statement “audacity to call Fatshark out on their BS”. The attack was directed at Hedge, not FS.

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As i’ve been very clear about, this post is about the fact that Hedge quit on the subreddit, because the subreddit were being criticial. Who else am I to use in the title? It’s about Hedge, ofcourse I would use Hedge’s name there. It would be very weird if I used someone elses. And I don’t think I single out anyone, since Hedge is alone in leaving the subreddit.
As I said to someone above, this is not, in any way, about thinking Hedge is responsible for all of Fatshark’s issues; he’s not. He’s proabably the least responisble. If you think i’m angry at Hedge for Fatshark’s demeanours, you are wrong. I’m not. I don’t know why people seem to think that is the case.
And, again, please, come with a title you think is better.

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Complaining about bias and then using extremely subjective, loaded words like “allowed”, “completely justified” and “toxicity” is kinda contradictory, wouldn’t you agree?

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How is anyone surprised that Reddit descended into a revolting pile of filthy stinking tripe? It’s not like this isn’t a pattern of behaviour for… oh I don’t know… every single game subreddit ever?

I’m surprised @Fatshark_Hedge lasted this long to be honest, as I stopped viewing anything to do with the Reddit many moons ago when it became clear that some people are simply typing whatever banal opinion happened to blaze across their forebrain at that precise moment.

The sheer length of the OP and the huge assumptions made in that post based upon Hedge’s previous post suggests that there is a level of bitterness within a lot of the community on Reddit that won’t be effectively reasoned with. Omnislashing Hedges every word and writing a Wall Of (passive-agressive) text only compounds the impression that common sense and realistic expectations have left the building. By dissecting his words to the Nth degree it feels like character assassination of Hedge - pure and simple.

I’m on Hedge’s side here, as there’s no point arguing with mindless anger so he’s taken a step back.

The OP admits they are interpreting Hedge’s two sentences quoted as being confirmation that brand new armour is going to be in the NEXT DLC. This is an immense leap of faith that has prompted this backlash against Hedge.

The Reddit community also somehow skew the definition of Cosmetic to ONLY mean brand new models for armours. This is another massive assumption. Reskinning and recolouring are cosmetic adjustments to the game, although not what the people who have made the assumption that it’s a new model expect.

but there’s also stuff you wont find in there.

If you won’t find something in the game files, it’s not in the game - although it might be in development.

The fallout from this whole idiotic episode is that FS will be EVEN LESS LIKELY to give ANYONE any kind of hint of anything in development ever. If two sentences can cause a blightstorm of shyte spattering anyone and anything remotely connected to FS then the best course of action for FatShark is to completely limit their community engagement to the point where a single release statement is issued on their official Website and Forums once a month.

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Which would be about as often/much as now. :frowning:

Herein this thread lies the reason for their reticence and silence. I don’t blame them one bit.

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In addition to the other comments, please keep in mind that there are 3 platforms of communication and, due to the repetition of posts, responses to questions are not given on all 3. This leads to a situation where people who only follow one platform feel like their issues are not being dealt with.

In Hedge’s response, he has provided a couple of links of issues that have been addressed elsewhere in this forum or on another platform. He was not providing responses to the issues you raised, but merely linking the responses that have already been made previously. A major issue is that people do not see their problems being acknowledged and instantly assume that they are being ignored.

It would be worth spending some time reading through the bugs section of this forum and making note of the posts that have been acknowledged by FS.

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Provide feedback and criticism. Fatshark asks for it and they genuinely want it. What they aren’t interested in seems to be misrepresenting things (like 120 employee claims) and beating dead horses (roadmap). Hyperbole makes the feedback provided less accurate, and makes the reception more defensive. I don’t believe it serves either side… unless you just want to make a joke rather than make things better.

I don’t think there’s any issue with you expressing concern for practices that you find to be anti-consumer… rather the issue is with how combative your approach is. Maybe an alternative title would be something like “I think Hedge’s hiatus from Vermintide subreddit is unjustified” and then you can go on to express your concerns (in a hopefully civil manner).

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Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu