Mixed feelings about community managers

[Spazz]

I have a feeling that some of the community managers overseeing the development of this game haven’t been up to the task lately. With all due respect but “some” of them need to chill and I’m not talking about Aqshy who hasn’t missed a beat. I don’t want to start throwing names out there but we all know who’s to blame now. It would be great if Hedge would sometimes research the topic himself before responding. No matter if he still cares for the game or not, he still gets paid to work.

While there are times to joke around and have a laugh now is certainly not one of them. The game is sitting at mixed reviews with 65% positive reviews as of writing this post and declining every day. All of this is really weird because Hedge seemed genuinely excited about the release of Darktide, but his comments aren’t just poorly worded but intentionally stingy. The four of his responses I will paraphrase really rubbed me the wrong way.

-The penances are too hard and require you to grief other players.
-Just make friends.

-Why isn’t there an attachment system in the game?
-This isn’t COD nor it was designed to be

-Missing weapons, crafting, scoreboards and scummy aquila pricing huh?
-We are hoping to add a “buy what you need” feature, it’s just immeasurably complex

-Why can’t we craft weapons?
-Crafting weapons doesn’t really fit the theme of the setting

I suppose the predatory cash shop and the state of the game are lore-friendly products of the grim reality of living in the world of Warhammer 40k? Again this post isn’t a witch hunt, but we really need to talk about it all. His bad takes are just like trying to put out the fire with gasoline. I understand that the steam forums are very hard to tell apart from actual cesspools, but somebody has to talk some sense into him. Again, I fully understand that he constantly gets thrown under the bus and blamed for literally everything that is wrong with the game but still. He’s getting paid to act cool and helpful and he isn’t doing his job. You’d think that he would be more careful especially now after the poor launch and the constant drama surrounding him yet here we are again.

I’m still rooting for the success of Darktide even if it means months and years of development before being worthy of a recommendation, however, I also think that when you no longer have any hope or passion for the project, maybe it’s better to move on. I hope that my intentions aren’t immeasurably complex and that I only wish Darktide gets better. I also hope I made myself clear when I said this isn’t a name-calling post, but I’m fully confident we deserve a discord channel specifically dedicated to memeing on Hedge’s replies if he doesn’t relax and change his behaviour. Anyway here are some memes that came to life because of his bad takes.

Please do try to remain civil and don’t threaten the developers. I don’t want them getting death threats and neither do I want to have my post locked. Thanks

[Hydrium]

I think the biggest issue is that nearly everything we were told about the game ended up being lies.

They explicitly stated the game was going in one direction and then immediately took it another.

I’m not surprised the CMs have no clue what they’re talking about, they’re supposed to be the intermediaries between us and the devs but if the devs have no clue what they’ll be doing then how would the CMs.

So one hand has no clue what the other is doing and we end up here. A mess of a game with no one knowing what’s happened nor happening.

In short, we’re the idiots for buying the game because we should have learned our lesson with VT. Fatshark games are not worth the money until a year after release.

Edit: Maybe this is just common culture for Nordic game developers. Eve Online has the exact same issues and it’s developed by CCP in Iceland.

[Dizzy721]

I don’t blame Hedge’s frustration with the community one bit. It saddens me that this game is getting PR blowback and bad reviews but I guess it is too be expected from some of the most entitled people on the planet.

I wonder if the dopamine response from video games is having long term effects on the brain and personality of heavy gamers. Video games are their fix and they are always looking for the next game for a new high. It’s understandable then the emotional and toxic reactions when people don’t get what they want or expect. If your job was to put a smile on and deal with a bunch of addicts, I’m sure there would be times where you may lose your cool.

[SlenderBarracuda]

Eh, I think a lot of the things told were true, when they were told. Then they were changed.

And that’s okay. What’s not okay is pretending it wasn’t a thing to begin with.

Games are an artform, and art devolops over time. The marble cracks so you carve around the crack. Time and money run out so you drop features.

I have faith Fat Shark will iron out the bugs. Maybe I’m wrong, but I really think it’ll happen. I haven’t interacted with Hedge, but it sounds like he’s under a lot of pressure and maybe needs to slow down a bit and just admit there’s bumps in the road. “We wanted that, we haven’t been able to get it in,” “This other thing is cancelled, we can’t afford it.”

People won’t love that, but they will respect it, and if they are being heard and know they are being heard, they will go to the ends of the Earth with you. That’s all.

[Magesghost]

think it this forum page now should dedicate the replies with memes based on Dev responses.

[AsukasHeadphones]

Thank you for the thread. In isolation these incidents wouldn’t really matter if a majority were satisfied with Darktide. This isn’t the case at the moment. Steam review score keeps plummeting, people in mass are leaving the game, some are refunding; as a result there’s a lot of people who demand answers. Why are there only four classes? Why is the loot progression system so awful? Why does this game not value our time? What happened to the story? Where are the promised features? Why is there an MTX shop in a paid game? Why didn’t Darktide delay? Why did Darktide release in an unfinished state? Why does it feel like the feedback that the community worked with you on Vermintide 2 has been completely thrown out the window? Why does it feel like Darktide has regressed in many ways compared to your prior releases?

These are the questions that everyone is asking themselves, and since the developer has refused to dialogue with us, we’re left to grasp for straws. Hence why people are judgemental towards Hedge’s unsavory comments - and yes, I do think they’re unsavory, because his comments disregard our genuine questions in an unbefitting manner. Great care should be taken into community interactions at the moment because everyone is looking for a reason to lambaste Fatshark.

I will make one brief comment about his reply to crafting. It’s silly to say that you don’t want weapon customization in your game because it isn’t ‘Call of Duty’. Resident Evil 4, one of the best action games of all time, allows players to add scopes to their weaponary; and it was better for it. It’s a fun experience to do so. This isn’t a ‘Call of Duty’ exclusive feature. People are requesting for sensible features that they were led to expect from marketing. The fact that it isn’t in the game is upsetting to many.

I’m curious on what happened during Darktide’s development. What went wrong? It’s obvious that the developers are not happy with state of things, Hedge’s responses notwithstanding point to that implication of disconnect. Neither Vermintide fans are happy nor are the developers, and seeing as how they refuse to dialogue with us, this is the assumption I’ve concocted in my head to make sense of it all. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be seeing so much bitterness being displayed by both sides. Indeed, if Darktide was as satisfying of a product to play we wouldn’t be having a ‘mixed’ steam rating with a playerbase that’s already dropping within a week. To put this into perspective, Vermintide 2 managed to hold tens of thousands of players until it started to dwindle months after release.

Then there’s the controversy of how featureless of a package Darktide is. Now, of course, I could be incorrect in that assumption; the developers could be quite proud of their achievements with Darktide: Performance, Loot Progression, Classes, Regression of QoL features, Penances, and so on. However they refuse to discuss anything with us, the community. So I’m left to assume that they’re not happy either.

To end this off, I want you to read through this post done by a reddit user. That showcases how complete of a package Vermintide 2 was on release and the focus on post-release support - notice the priorities between the two games:

r/DarkTide - Comparing careers in Darktide and Vermintide, based on Fatshark's...

[Hydrium]

And defending a company that doesn’t give a damn about you is peak stupidity.

Congrats, you like half-baked unfinished games, hooray for you. That’s not really the theme of the party however.

[yayo]

“It saddens me that the game is getting PR blowback and bad reviews but I guess it is to be expected from some of the most entitled people on the planet.”

If you really think it’s entitled to ask ‘why is this game incomplete on launch?’ and to be honest in your reaction and criticism of the game, then news flash, you’re actually the one who is entitled. You feel this game, and its developers, are entitled to not suffer any consequences or pushback from releasing a subpar product.

[SirGoober]

i will still be waiting on fatshark to deliver at least a basic weapon attachment system.

welcome to my hill, ive come to die on it again. if i have to make myself a meme then i shall. let it be known that i. the emperors strongest lil goober. want my ironsights on the kantael lasguns.

and maybe default full auto as a setting in the game, but thats more QoL

[Throne_of_Rats]

Uhm… what? The criticism is quite valid and the bad reviews warranted given the state of the game at present. Where exactly is the entitlement? If Fatshark want praise and positive reviews, how about they release a working product having the advertised features? Not sure how many people can get away with selling a product that might work as advertised twelve months after purchase.

[boom]

I think the worst thing to do right now is blame Hedge. Hedge is a red herring. Hedge represents Fatshark but has limited agency. It’s almost impossible to do that in a manner that pleases everyone in the current situation.

Even if Hedge has complete information about the development process and future roadmap, there will be limitations on what he is allowed to say. If he communicated in an apologetic manner it would be a concession of wrongdoing for Fatshark which they might see as a bad move strategically. He is being flippant and dismissive because it’s the only non-committal way to address community outrage(other than silence).

Ultimately it is up to Fatshark(People in Charge) to respond to respond decisively.

I do appreciate the communication we have received. It is not as open or honest as I would like but it’s a lot better than nothing.

[Dizzy721]

On release there were only 2 things that were incomplete.

1. Crafting → made known ahead of time
2. Performance → hard to know ahead of time on a individual basis

Crafting being incomplete is a bummer; they owned up to it and seem to be on schedule with what they said. For performance, a significant amount of the issues have been resolved and I’m confident it will get better over time. The release of Chaos Wastes showed to me that they’ll iterate and make things better quickly on that front. New players to the series may not know this and perhaps the onus is on the VT vets to speak up.

So two negatives that certainly stop me from giving the game an A+ and something that if it were so important, I would wait until the end of December to see the final product of the initial system. But based on what is actually in the game, the main loop of leveling all 4 classes delivers over 100+ hours of -Tide gameplay. It is very hard to reconcile the tone and toxicity in the criticisms based on that for me.

This issue is not specific to Fatshark or Darktide but the common denominator is certainly gamers.

[Kumori]

2. Performance → hard to know ahead of time on a individual basis

Sure, but the problem with performance is that you barely have ANY graphical settings. Which means everything is set in stone and the only thing you can use to alter is DLSS or Fidelity scaling.

Of course you will have lots of performance issues when the game is built with only one graphical setting in mind. PC’s have tons of varied configurations, so being able to change my settings based on the strong and weak points of my build helps.

Yeah, it’s hard to know, but you can do work so it mitigate the issue, by giving people graphical settings to tinker with.

[Exterium]

This issue is not specific to Fatshark or Darktide but the common denominator is certainly gamers.

No sh*t, plenty of manufacturers make trash products, but the common denominator is customers.

Rocket science right there.

[Dizzy721]

And when certain customers react in a way that is excessively rude and entitled, especially in relation to the service that has been provided and requested, we call them Karens.

But Karens don’t stick around for weeks to yell that every decision you make is stupid, that you have moral misgivings, incompetent, etc. Only gamers do that.

[yayo]

No, more then that is missing. You seem to forget that not all weapons are in the game yet.

And no offense, but you are a total shill. “The common denominator is certainly gamers.” “Toxicity in the criticisms.” Dude, it’s a $40 product with $12 cosmetic bundles. When you’re buying something, there’s a lot more weight on what you receive.

This game isn’t free, so buying it - especially preordering it - and receiving an unfinished product is not satisfying at all. Of course people aren’t going to just keep quiet about it.

Plus, do you not understand why we’re making so much noise about the game’s worst design decisions and missing content? Because this is a live service game; they will continue updating and working on it; and likely they will work on what they’re hearing the most about, especially within metrics like reviews which effect their bottom line by limiting sales.

Your position is to just keep quiet and wait until they fix the game. But that’s silly because not only is the game missing content, it has features that need redesigned for the longevity of the product. For example, being able to pick what mission and difficulty you want to play, and even the modifiers.

Why can’t you do that? What happens when the game is 5 years old with many, many maps? What if some maps and missions are prevented from appearing on the mission board?

They’re not going to add QOL features and back away from the malicious phone gacha design unless they get pushback for it.

[yayo]

Let’s say you order a cheeseburger and it comes without cheese. You inform the restaurant there was no cheese. They take the burger back and provide you a new cheeseburger. Sometimes they will partially refund you or do something else extra.

Let’s say you order a cheeseburger and there’s nothing wrong with it, but you complain anyway. That’s what being a Karen is. I doubt you work in any customer service industry, because I do, so I think I know “rude and entitled” behavior, and the reaction to this game’s subpar launch has not been “rude and entitled.”

Again, I’d say it’s “rude and entitled” to disregard all the overwhelming negative feedback because “toxic gamers.”

With Darktide, we’ve received a cheeseburger that weighs less it’s supposed to, has no cheese, and the bun is all hard. But when we try to tell the restaurant, there is no reply, or the occasional condescending reply. And we’re sitting here at the table or at the bar, shooting the sh!t with each other while we wait for something to be done about this mediocre food in front of us. But it’s not that bad; it’s like it came with fries and we can pick on those while we wait.

[Duncan1290]

Dude, it’s a $40 product with $12 cosmetic bundles.

The $60 price point, set in 2005, is now worth ~$90 adjusting for inflation. A $40 game in 2022 is equivalent to a $26 game in 2005. Games cannot decrease in actual value of sale price without that money being made up somewhere. Fatshark has opted for an optional, completely gameplay-independent cosmetic shop and (probably) paid careers, which they had in Vermintide 2 as well. What is actually the problem?

[Ashreon]

• Crafting was touted as being in the game from the beginning. They, then, a week before launch reneged on that with a “it’ll be released gradually in December” ie. we didn’t have time to finish a core system in the game.
• Performance has continued to be an issue throughout all of the Betas and it was finally looking up at the end of the pre-launch beta. Then it plummeted with the pre-launch patch.
• Sliding doesn’t prevent you from getting hit, even though you’re taught that sliding prevents this.
• Suppression doesn’t work most of the time.
• Enemies that are supposed to go into melee in melee range, continue to shoot at you.
• Crashes in stores, crashes in missions, crashes changing graphics, crashes when alt-tabbing, crashes because of weapons, crashes because of feats, crashes because of textures…
• Touted RTX flat out does not work at all.
• 3060+ GFX and 12000K+ CPUs have severe performance issues.
• MTX store with predatory practices which are likely against EU regulations, they also had the audacity to lie about having a 1:1 Aquilas package, then said it would take time to have them approved then to say “they’re working on making a 1:1 package”.
• Missing weapons that were used for advertisement
• Touted a weapon mod system, that was then removed without telling us.
• Supposed to have less RNG and more player agency, instead they increased RNG and reduced player agency.

I’m sorry you’re not the brightest lightbulb, but there is no excuse for any of the above in a game that was postponed four times and have been in development for years.

And Hedge has continuously, without fail, fanned the flames with his responses that has one thinking what the actual hell?

[yayo]

The cosmetics had a FOMO timer until recently was the main problem, alongside not being able to buy exactly what you want; I still have plenty leftover from putting some cash in.

I’m not saying I oppose the cosmetic shop per-say, I’m saying that it’s a product we’ve paid for, so it’s not “entitled” to have expectations and to criticize the product when they don’t meet said expectations.