I feel like Nurgle is the more boring choice of enemy compared to Genestealer Cult

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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Having the enemies be Nurgle seems like a bit of a letdown to me.

Choosing Nurgle as the enemy forces is a bit of a letdown to me. When thinking of “W40K Enemy in a Hive City that would work in for a wave/hoard-based game”, Nurgle seems like the more boring choice when compared to the other obvious one, that being Genestealer Cultists. I really think they would have been a better choice for several reasons.

Part of what made Vermintide 1 and 2 great was that the decision to have Skaven as the main enemy was something that made it stand out. There are all sorts of games of this type of genre where the enemy is some form of stereotypical choice – undead/zombies or some form of “monster” like enemy (e.g. Mutants). Having the game be focused about hordes of Giant rat men was something that helped show the variety of the Warhammer Fantasy setting as it was a pretty unique choice to have as enemies in this type of game. Thematically it felt better than just generic undead or monsters. Vermintide 2 obviously had chaos forces as the enemy too, but those were in the game along with the Skaven so that was alright.

So to have Darktide seemingly focus on Nurgle stuff seems like it’s instead going for a more generic choice that won’t stand out as much. As someone who knows the relevant W40K lore stuff I obviously know what the enemies are, but to many people they’re just going to seem like typical zombie-like enemies – have a look at the screenshots shown so far, and there isn’t really anything about the enemies that makes you think “this is W40K” in particular. I don’t think Nurgle will really showcase the W40K as much as having Genestealer Cultists would have, terrifying Multi-limbed alien mutant horrors would have been a much more interesting enemy choice than what are basically Zombies. There would have been just as much variety and it would be far less common of a choice that’s more unique to the W40K setting, as there aren’t really many games in this genre that have something similar.

W40K is a massive universe with all sorts of interesting stuff, and out of all the possible choices it’s like they’ve gone for something that won’t really be THAT much different from how you’ve seen Zombies/Undead in so, so many similar genres, TV Shows, Movies etc.

I’m not trying to be negative towards the hard work the developers have done, I’m sure they’ve done a great job and I’ll still play and enjoy the game regardless, but… It just seems like a bit of an uninspired enemy choice in comparison to Genestealer Cult.

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Well GSC don’t really have any possible ally,

Ganger don’t work for them

Chaos don’t like Tyranid

Other Xenos race mostly hate them

If FS want to be able to branch out it’s better to use a Chaos faction (and they used the one they knew the most) and then be able to use all the other Chaos Faction:

General/Chaos Undivided

Cultist: each god has different cult with their own particularity

Beastmen: Pestigor, Khornegor/Bloodgor, Slangor, Tzangor

Various Demon: Nurgling, Deamonette, Bloodletter, Plaguebearer, Horror

Dark Mechanicum: various war engine

Renegade Regiment: Blood pact (Khorne)

And also all the Xenos affiliated with the Chaos god

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The problem with that idea is that it’s choosing a worse enemy for the main, core aspect of the game in order to have supplementary stuff that might come later. They don’t need an “ally”, the enemy choice shouldn’t revolve around what has the most potential “allies” that could possibly appear later although more likely not, it should just be what would be better on its own as the main choice…and in that way, what are basically going to be like Zombies is not as unique and interesting as Genestealer Cult. Vermintide didn’t choose their initial enemy based on what other factions could be included with them later, either.

I also think that idea is quite overestimating just what “chaos” in this context means in relation to the game. Yes, the Chaos Gods/factions can and do work together occasionally - that doesn’t mean the Dark Mechanicum or Traitor Guardsmen would fit in perfectly fine with a game that involves containing a Nurgle Plague in the underhive. Having the outbreak change into for example the Nurgle Plague and also Slaanesh cultists together would just clash thematically in this context, because you’ve then got two substantially different things with different themes there just because “chaos”.

Lastly, “ally” wouldn’t have to mean “they’re in an alliance” considering Genestealer Cult are a faction that involves infiltrating, spread and taking over other factions. There are plenty of things that could be included with Genestealer Cult.

I just don’t think Nurgle is as unique and interesting a choice for the game because of how over-used that sort of thing is with this style of game, and the prevalence in W40K lore over the past few years.

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This isn’t a particularly good reason, but its something: Genestealers were the enemy of choice in Space Hulk: Deathwing, which was also a horde based co-op shooter. A tragically bad one, and I would absolutely love Fatshark to make a fresh attempt with Tyranids, but there you go.

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Genestealer Cultists may be added later in DLC. It is not contradicting anything. Darktide have more opportunities than Vermintide2. I hope it will be better made.

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If successful more factions could be added either working together, faction specific maps or even some in conflict as map progresses.

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Would the enemy factions necessarily have to work together? If not, then the enemy faction choices are pretty high.

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Jumping in the middle of a conflict would be cool af not gonna lie.

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But jumping inside a current conflict would be difficult to do:

  • Enemy killing each other before we arrive

  • How do they act when presented by the player and the other faction

But on the other hand they could do it by sector:

  • Each mission has either Chaos or GSC

  • Possibility of Incursion (Faction not present that come on the mission)

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Not really, have a section of a map that would i.e. spawn enemies of the both sides constantly and you’d have to make your way through somehow. Or make it so one side overwhelms the other over the span of a mission which would increase the difficulty as you progress through a level.

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  • Enemies deal reduced damage to one another when players are far away.
  • Enemies that are fighting one another will be momentarily distracted by the players, then keep fighting each other.
  • Enemies that are not in direct combat (not exchanging blows) will charge players.
  • Enemies that are exchanging blows will push, stab and swing at players that get close, but will focus on their AI opponent until the opponent dies or the player deals enough damage to switch its priorities. Their previous opponent will opportunistically stab them in the back or push them towards you (staggers it) if it gets the chance to do so.
  • A threat AI determines whether enemies will focus on another AI faction or players. This could be calculated by damage dealt and how many are killed.
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They basically fight bot AI as is don’t think it would be that hard especially working with a more clean slate than V2

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Blockquote Adeon 14h
Genestealer Cultists may be added later in DLC. It is not contradicting anything. Darktide have more opportunities than Vermintide2. I hope it will be better made.

That Genestealer cultists “may be added later” doesn’t mean that Nurgle is suddenly the best choice for them primary enemy of the core game itself.

I think those saying things like “they might add more later” or “Nurgle can have more allies” and such are missing the point i’m making here, really. Ignore that idea of adding more and instead just think about from the perspective of Nurgle as the focus for the game, and only that stuff. Compare that to Genestealer cult.

Is the idea of Nurgle as an enemy interesting as Genestealer Cultists? No, not really - plague/disease based-enemy with likely not too much depth to what they’re doing. Genestealer cult would allow more variety with what their doing as their whole thing is about secretly spreading and undermining the society they’re part of in order to prepare it for a Tyranid Invasion potentially hundreds of years later, with lots of potential things they could do to help further their plans Nurgle-related stuff are likely to be along the lines of “spread plague to get more followers”. Obviously they’re plans can go beyond that, but the element of subterfuge and plotting isn’t quite there like it is with Genestealer Cultists,.

Is Nurgle as unique compared to other games enemies, including from the perspective of people who don’t know the lore? Not really, they’re pretty much just going to behave like Zombies and/or Monsters do in so, so many other games of the genre. Certainly not as unique in terms of what they are, or in terms of appearance, as a cult based around what’s effectively Xenomorphs. Just take a look at the enemies shown in screenshots released, they don’t stand out and someone who doesn’t know W40K lore would just assume they’re generic zombies, not likely go “What’s that thing I want to know more”. Nurgle enemies aren’t as good a showcase of the W40K setting because it’s pretty much something that all sorts of other settings have something similar to, in terms of appearance and basic idea.

Basically my point is, out of the choice of Nurgle and Genestealer Cult, how is Nurgle the better choice here? I don’t see what choosing Nurgle does that doesn’t seem like it’s the worse option of the two. They’re both allow the same sort of enemy variety in terms of gameplay, but I think Nurgle is the lesser choice in terms of uniqueness, lore variety and just cool-factor. Genestealer Cult is less commonplace in W40K stuff and I think would just be more interesting overall.

What is basically “Generic Evil guys + Zombies + Monsters” is the less inspired choice of the two, regardless of the gameplay itself being great. I’m sure the game will be fun, so i’m not put off from it, I just feel like it might have been sort of the wrong choice to go for Nurgle as the primary enemy because of how common that sort of thing is.

Imagine if when developing Vermintide 1 the decision for enemies was to instead have the chaos forces seen in Vermintide 2, so no Skaven. The gameplay of the series be the same, so it would still be great in that way…but would you really say that would still have been as cool and interesting an enemy choice as the hordes of Giant Ratmen they went for? Would you not think Skaven would have been better?

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Putting nurglite marines aside, isn’t the majority of Nurgle’s units melee-oriented?
Whereas genestealers are all shooty tricky, as they’re basically infested humans who think they’re freedom fighters fighting for some wholly just cause, so they’re just normal, infested working Joe’s armed with guns and bombs and whatever other weapons and equipment they can get their hands on.

If that’s the case, it could be that FS just wanted to avoid ranged enemies as much as possible.

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Depend to what Genestealer we are talking about, there are a lot of Tyranid-like creature who only do melee.
Those variation depend on their generation:
Full Tyranid (mostly melee)
Tyranid but smarter (melee and psyker)
Hybrid (melee and shooty)
True Hybrid(shooty and Psyker)
Full Tyranid (melee)

I don’t remember the name but it is mostly that

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Blockquote ArkBlanc
[7h] Putting nurglite marines aside, isn’t the majority of Nurgle’s units melee-oriented?
Whereas genestealers are all shooty tricky, as they’re basically infested humans who think they’re freedom fighters fighting for some wholly just cause, so they’re just normal, infested working Joe’s armed with guns and bombs and whatever other weapons and equipment they can get their hands on.
If that’s the case, it could be that FS just wanted to avoid ranged enemies as much as possible.

Something to keep in Mind is that the Genestealer Cultist units we see in tabletop are going to be ones generally fully equipped and mobilized for a skirmish of some kind, not so much how things would be for them all the time. It really depends on how far the infection has spread and what level of Hybrids they are. They’re a group of secretive alien hybrids that make use of whatever they have available, fewer ranged weapons could be easily explained as them just not having enough. They could also just be people hypnotized into joining them, even Imperial Guard. The genestealer cultist miniatures are specifically ones outfitted from miners and making use of mining equipment, so there’s plenty of variety possible. There are also melee-focused things like Aberants and the obvious Genestealers.

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would you recommend anything to read about Genestealers?

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Cult of The Warmason by CL Werner
Genestealer Cults by Peter Fehervari
The Deathwing series (First is about the Space Marine, the second about Culexus assassin)

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I just found about a Nurglite Genestealer Cult: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cult_Tenebrous

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hard disagree on the point of genestealer cult. Give me chaos cultists that are not Nurgle.
Nurgle is boring zombies.

Give me bloodthirsty cults, cults who practice foul sorceries and political machinations or cults devoted to drug production etc.

Genestealer cults are trash because they are from the worst NPC faction 40k has to offer there are no deep or cool motivation for their actions beyond feed the hive.

Human cultists at least have individual will and choice.

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